I didn’t think I could hate Facebook and the rich techbros any more than I already do, but holy shit, this book is making want to start learning how to build guillotines.

It also does a great job on showing how power and wealth just make people into sociopathic simulacra of humanity.

  • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
    4·
    4 days ago

    This seems odd. If such groups are extant now on planet Earth and have proven to be unbelievably stable then where are the sociopathy-less societies that they have fostered? If there are no sociopathy-less societies, then the idea that prefigurative communities can be effective would appear to be false.

    This is the typical argument of “it can’t exist because it doesn’t exist yet”. It’s facetious. By this argument one could argue 500 years ago that liberal democracies are impossible just as well.

    This seems to be key. There will never be an absence of outside pressure which, again, implies that preconfigurative communities cannot be effective.

    There’s no certainty that they would fail by every type of external pressure.

    Not really, your comment just piqued my interest.

    Cool but I don’t think you have any actual honest interest to understand and are just being a debatelord wasting my time, so I’m bowing out now.

    • rah@feddit.ukEnglish
      11·
      4 days ago

      This is the typical argument of “it can’t exist because it doesn’t exist yet”. It’s facetious.

      By the same token, if there’s no practical evidence of prefigurative communities being effective in fostering wider sociopathy-less societies then your/the proposition is solely theoretical and adherence to the ideal is a matter of faith.

      By this argument one could argue 500 years ago that liberal democracies are impossible just as well.

      Nobody set out with liberal democracies in mind 500 years ago. The societies we have now have evolved very slowly and are a mish-mash of different ideas and influcences, often conflicting, both over time historically and together now in its current state.

      I don’t think you have any actual honest interest to understand

      I did, I’m just extremely skeptical. I feel I do have a better understanding now though and to be honest, in light of that limited understanding I’m not feeling motivated to seek more.

      I’m bowing out now

      Fair enough.

      • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
        1·
        4 days ago

        By the same token, if there’s no practical evidence of prefigurative communities being effective in fostering wider sociopathy-less societies then your/the proposition is solely theoretical and adherence to the ideal is a matter of faith.

        There is evidence. The article I linked to even mentions some.

        Nobody set out with liberal democracies in mind 500 years ago. The societies we have now have evolved very slowly and are a mish-mash of different ideas and influcences, often conflicting, both over time historically and together now in its current state.

        So would anarchism. The ideas we have now about what a future society would like, are about as idealistic as the early liberal revolutions. Like them, we’re just imagining something better than the current system.

        You keep dragging me in with these bad takes which I feel I have to counter. Very annoying.

        • Sturgist@lemmy.ca
          2·
          12 hours ago

          You keep dragging me in with these bad takes which I feel I have to counter. Very annoying.

          I don’t think they’re necessarily BadTakes™. Uninformed. Having read through the article, and leaning heavily towards Anarcho-Syndaclism personally, the article does mention real world examples, sure. However there’s not really a lot of info there, more of a bird’s eye overview in 2-3 paragraphs. Maybe the videos give more detail?

          The person you were talking with seems pretty typical of people I’ve spoken to about these things. Interested, but, if not provided with a fair amount of examples/detail, get wound up with exactly this type of argument.

          • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
            2·
            12 hours ago

            I’ve dealt a lot with people like these. They are not interested in learning. They’re only interested in debating.

            • Sturgist@lemmy.ca
              1·
              12 hours ago

              I have too, and debate I’ve found is a great way to have someone learn. 🤷
              Granted not everyone is willing to debate in good faith.

              • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
                2·
                12 hours ago

                I did not smell good faith from this person. When you’re debating in good faith, you’re very conscious about wasting your partner’s time and even of checking if they were looking for a debate in the first place, or if they were just posting a quick meme…

                • Sturgist@lemmy.ca
                  2·
                  12 hours ago

                  Fair enough. I’ll end this here, I was making an offhand observation, and don’t want to turn this into…🤔 A Debate!

                  Thanks for the short chat bud. 🙂

                  • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
                    2·
                    12 hours ago

                    No worries. You didn’t bother me. I can (usually) tell when people are being debate perverts on threaded discussions :)