Either way you risk a possibility of being rear-ended.
I used to be a big fan of public transport, but after covid it went to shit in my country or rather, it went to shit in my part of the country. Pretty sure it is still great in Copenhagen. Those lucky bastards.
As an American who visited Copenhagen post-covid, the public transport is amazing.
As an American, I hate busses and will drive over using public transport every single time.
I imagine in other places in the world, your public transport runs on time, is well maintained, and is clean. Here is such a hit or miss it’s anxiety inducing to the point the road is more relaxing and no, I can’t say public transport is safer given my personal experience.
It’s not really a choice for people. I get up at 3am and wait an hour for the bus just to be on time at 6am.
Can’t do much and any job requires a license even if isn’t driving related - which instantly nullifies me if I use other acceptable forms of identification.
Public transport is definitely safer, just more eventful. It’s nice when you enter a train that smells like fecal matter with a lady just eating a whole rotisserie chicken on the other side. It just follows the same guidelines as other public spaces, don’t be a nuisance and make yourself small. It becomes entertaining to have these stories.
Some lady didn’t know to just shut up and complained nonstop about the shit on the floor. But then she made a comment about the lady and her chicken, it was small and innocuous. She then kept talking to the conductor.
However, that is how you get slammed after you got stunned by some airborne rotisserie chicken.
So it’s usually okay, just has rules like any house.
Mehhh I made bad choices and have to live with them, Pity me!
Depends on the bus / area.
There is real time bus tracking now in most places so you can see when things will arrive = WAY better for dealing with traffic (note traffic is a thing for cars as well)
I’m in Portland OR and of course a bus going through a bad area is more likely to have people who are “not ok” (addicts) but the vast majority of our busses are clean and climate controlled and filled with perfectly lovely friendly people.
And risk assessment is based on what is likely. My aunt smoked her whole life and never got lung cancer so my “personal experience” is that smoking doesn’t cause cancer. You see what I’m saying?
Cars are more dangerous than busses. Period. You might not like them for any number of perfectly valid reasons, and a specific bus in a specific area might be more dangerous - but the point of the post is that personal preference and accurate risk assessment are not the same thing.
Yes.
Didn’t know that but that’s cool and helpful.
Straight up I disdain the majority of humanity drug users or not and hearing poors talk about how bad their lives are is depressing as fuck. Put it this way, I hate the poor so much I hate the rich for making them poor.
On that note of personal experience yes cars are dangerous but in a car I have control and my driving can make it a lot safer or dangerous and so far, my driving is safer than most folks I know. Knock on wood.
Context to the subway?
People who don’t live here think it’s like The Warriors. They picture roving gangs of murderous criminals, live wires sparking everywhere, and insane people screaming Eldritch horrors. This is not accurate.
In America the metro is seen as where there are lots of poor people and drug addicts and the rich people tend to prefer to buy fancy cars and drive them.
It’s kind of the same logic as to why america is one of the few countries where the poor people tend to live in the city center, but the rich people out in the suburbs.
It’s so much more than this, and it just seems like you don’t have any experience that you’re drawing from. My main experience is the subway in Manhattan (and trains from NJ to get there). You go from the chronically late trains in NJ, to the poor infrastructure in NY, and whether or not the train smells like piss, or there’s someone who I am desperately trying to to avoid making eye contact with, just ends up being the cherry on top of what was an unenjoyable and often unnecessarily long trip.
I’ve rarely had a subway that smells like piss. The last time I had a stench on the train was years ago. It’s not always “so clean I would eat off the seats” but the NYC subway is much better than people who don’t ride it imagine it.
Most of the people on the train are just people trying to get someplace.
Rode on the subway the first time last year. My wife has a super sensitive nose so her experience was a little different. But for the average person, I seriously doubt the subway is even that big of a deal like you said. It smelled my the mechanic shop my dad worked at. Grease and metal. And maybe we didn’t hit a rush hour, but it wasn’t all that crowded either. I was a bit bummed no one was break dancing. Stupid youtube always lying to me.
I think there were crackdowns on the “Showtime kids” (aka the kids that dance on the train). A lot of people have no soul and get cranky about them. I mean, they’re mildly disruptive and probably occasionally fuck up, but it’s also only a couple minutes, and sometimes it’s pretty impressive.
When I was a Fed in DC, I took the Metro to work. It was really nice. And a very pleasant time to myself on the train.
Thanks!
This is a gross simplification. Public transportation IS full of mentally ill people and the homeless, and lots of women feel unsafe on busses and trains. It’s not the rich who prefer personal vehicle transport; everyone does
That’s a very stretched definition of “full of”.
Pre-pandemic I rode the subway to work every day. I’d see a handful of clearly unwell people on the train a week. I’d also see thousands of seemingly put-together people in that time. Is a milk jug full of milk and one jellybean full of jellybeans?
I cannot speak authoritatively for women, but my understanding is most of the danger comes from men. Not mentally unwell people, not the homeless, just regular men. Being unwell or desperate doesn’t help, but it’s not the only source of danger.
Furthermore, not everyone prefers personal vehicle transport. Maybe people prefer mass transit for a variety of reasons.
Counterpoint, the highways are also full of mentally ill people and statistically it’s more risky to drive than take the bus / train.
I think people fear violent death more than they fear accidental death. If american cities want more people to ride public transportation, they need to clean up public transportation. If you’ve been outside of the US you see how countries with far fewer resources than us do a lot more with their public transportation.
They’re cleaner, less noisy, and the police will actually do something about antisocial behavior on the trains. Until we have something like that in thr US, I will avoid taking the bus
I think control has a lot to do with it as well. We feel better when we’re in control and on a subway you are most definitely not in control of the vehicle, or the people inside it. Regardless that it’s statistically safer than driving. I think people feel safer driving because they feel in control. Drivers can choose the route, who is in their vehicle, and when to stop. Those are things that we feel when we assess risk, even if it’s counter intuitive.
Well it’s also way more convenient to drive in most places. Public transportation in most American cities doesn’t work well
Me and the boys boarding be like
Let’s be real: they’re terrified that they might be forced to be near poor people, minorities, gays, and mentally ill folk.
One of these things is not like the other
Bingo. I’ve talked to many of them online and it always boils down to this. It’s never that they’re actually in any danger. It’s just they feel scared. They drive their big trucks because it makes them feel safe.
Meanwhile puny me rides the subway daily.
Might surprise you, but on feeling scared: I once heard that a slim majority of SUV drivers were women. In some ways it makes sense - if they’d normally be vulnerable walking the streets alone, a less vulnerable vehicle gives them a feeling of safety.
It’s not a surprise. There’s some good analysis of vehicle advertisements, and one of the big emotions they push with SUV ads is the feeling of being safe in a ‘bad’ situation.
Fear based advertising (in general)
Article that is often quoted about fear in advertising
They’re weak, scared, and pathetic. Too xenophobic to interact with anyone or anything outside their coddled circles that might make them feel “”“uncomfortable”“”.
That’s nice, no medication I’ve found yet lets me ride public transportation without constantly freaking out from human proximity but I bet it is just so pleasant to have a normal brain
or they could be, like me, mentally ill folk who really cannot handle being forced to be around other people
But generalizations are fun aren’t they!
You arent the main character bruh
Everyone is the main character of their story.
His story is other peoples stories are the same as his story.
Every single conservative man is mentally ill?
Add a little nuance to your argument and I’ll engage
Also you didn’t parse the sentence correctly, I was specifically referring to MY mental illnesses
Add a little nuance & good faith to your conclusion on my initial statement, and I’ll engage, too! Maybe you should re-read things to nake sure you’re not misunderstanding something.
— Sincerely, someone who is also struggles with mental illness, including severe anxiety & agoraphobia.
Nothing in my statement said conservatives, you made that up out of bad faith so why are you demanding good faith now?
Why cripple myself with rules you refuse to follow?
…did you not read the text of which this entire post is about, or…?
I’m more terrified of driving a car in a city than on a highway. In a city one small mistake can mean killing a child or something. On the highway I can go at a moderate speed in the right lane without distractions.
Either way I prefer rails tho
Already afraid of this on an e bike.
Saw a mom walking on the road (next to a perfectly available sidewalk) with her small child following her 2 meters behind her.
Fucking hell if that kid randomly ran to my side, I would have hit her.
I hate this shit so much
I saw a car hit a teenager on a bike the other day. Dragged the kid a bit and then just sped off.
Somehow the kid seemed fine. Got up and rode off after a moment.
This was in Brooklyn, by Barclays center (a very crowded spot). Fuck cars and double fuck irresponsible turds that would drive off after nearly killing someone.
In my state, statistics show that there are more fatalities on rural roads than in metro areas… and 80% of us live in the metro areas.
My car is 900kg with a straight-through muffler. No kid is going under it. Just don’t drive a tank through school zones.
straight-through muffler
I hope you throw a rod through the oil pan.
If you don’t like it, I’ll take it off.
I’m kinda germaphobic, and they never seem to clean public transit. Chewed gum everywhere, littering, bodily fluids. Like I’m sure 99% of people are normal, but just 1% of dumbasses ruin it. NYC, Philly, I’ve seen it all. I heard people say other countries such as Japan has clean public transit, not sure why the US can’t do the same… 🤔 (I bet the politicians stole all the funding)
My ideal transport would be getting launched out of a cannon, then I deploy a parachute after the GPS notifies me when I’ve arrived at the destination. Patachute deployed, I land on the roof, like a boss. 😎
Great for introverts too. 🫠
(So until public transit is fixed, I rather be fired… out of a cannon)
Other countries actually clean, sanitize, and maintain their public transit including trains and metro. They do this by shutting it down for a few hours in the early morning/ late night
Other countries are not so me centric as America is either.
If only we could replace the plane ride before jumping into the sky. I once did the math in my head for how fast you’d have to be shot out of a cannon to reach typical jumping height, and it was a doozy. Disregarding air resistance, it approaches the speed of sound… and since we know how much air resistance matters in skydiving, that method is just out.
I’m actually curious now. Wingsuits can get a glide ratio of 2-3:1, right? The US census reports average commute time around 26.8 minutes, which (and I’m really spitballing here), might mean an average of 8-20 miles. Even with the wingsuit, that would mean having to get up above 20,000 feet AGL for the shortest distance. Now you’re talking about supersonic cannon speeds, AND are at a height where they start recommending using oxygen bottles.
Alright, all that was using the idea off getting shot straight up and then gliding from the top. Let’s plug in some horizontal firing. The most efficient horizontal distance is achieved at 45 degrees, not considering air resistance. It looks like you’d be fired at just under 800mph, or 355 meters/second if you like metric, with a horizontal/vertical velocity of 562 mph each. Travel time is about 51ish seconds.
None of that really makes sense without air resistance though. The fastest speeds for a skydiver just cross 300mph, or 450 ft/sec. The record right now is 527.77km/h, and you cannot deploy the parachute at those speeds without injury or death. So that means our 800 mph initial velocity would have to be far greater so you could get as far as possible before air resistance brings you down to terminal velocity. It also takes time for a parachute to deploy (5-10 seconds), which really throws a spanner in the works for timing. I’d also love to imagine the air traffic patterns as people are willy-nilly shot around metro commuting areas.
Hmm. I seem to love mixing imperial and metric measurements.
Cleanliness depends a lot on culture
Odds are they are American and if you haven’t noticed our culture is pretty hell bent on rejecting civic duty
Fully agreed but even clean as a whistle I am not comfortable being around that many people ever
Conservative men are terrified of everything. Perpetual fear and petty grievances are the cornerstones of the entire conservative ethos.
but there’s crazy people on the subway
You don’t think there’s crazy people on the highway? And on the highway they’re controlling a 2 ton killing machine in a sometimes stressful situation.
I’ll take the crazy guy yelling in the corner of the subway then see what he’s like behind the wheel of one of those huge pickup trucks during traffic.
Yeah like what the fuck? Every time I drive on a highway I encounter at least one potential life-ending moment, where if I hit the breaks one second too late I’ll die. This is absolutely a trillion times worse than the slim chance of getting a subway car lit on fire lol
Then you are not giving the proper distance. If you experience this every time you drive you are probably the problem.
Also those scary moments are fun. Maybe that’s just a me thing though.
Every time I drive on a highway I encounter at least one potential life-ending moment, where if I hit the breaks one second too late I’ll die
What highway is this?
^^^
I ride the subway all the time and haven’t been murdered yet. AMA
So you are the one doing the murders then?
Ever seen something as cool as pizza rat?
Rat wise, no, unless you want to count the inflatable
I hate being within arms reach of people so fuck your subways and your neurotypical ease with dealing with ridiculously overstimulating stress-filled situations
I’d rather you be uncomfortable in a subway sometimes than the entire world suffer from all the horrible things personal car ownership does.
If you’re a regular subway rider or grew up riding one (such as my neurodivergent ass) you start to realize that you’re just a person in a sea of people on the train. The anonymizing actually helps with my anxiety.
For you maybe, and my worry isn’t not being anonymous, it’s getting stabbed again
Are people really downvoting you for being stabbed?
I’m really sorry this happened to you. I hope you are well and that nothing like this ever happens to you again.
Easy, just don’t look like someone who wants to get stabbed again!
I’m joking, obviously. I’m really sorry that happened to you.
Appreciate it, thankfully it slid off my ribs and only needed stitches but that was nearly half a century ago and I still have to do a lot of mental prep work to sit down that close to strangers
Also as for your ‘don’t look like a person who wants to get stabbed again’ line, I know you made it as a joke but statistically autists are targeted for violence by abusers and those abusers describe it all as visual cues that lead them to violence so maybe something to consider.
Subways are chill in other countries. The USA is insane.
My fear of being stabbed again isn’t 100% rational and won’t just go away because I cross an imaginary geographic line PEOPLE are insane, just the U.S. has a higher concentration
I’ve done both.
Safest place in the subway is at the front of the first car near the motorman. Second best is the front of the second car. If there’s trouble you can move to the first car [with the motorman easily] and have two doors between you and the troublemaker.
Public transport is directly correlated with ridership numbers. When using public transport is the best mobility option, then everyone from all backgrounds will use it and that leads to less bullshit being done.
The numbers are pretty early but the congestion pricing in NYC has apparently already led to less crime in the subway.
The latest Climate Town vid is great.
You also shouldn’t use your phone if you’re right near the doors. It’s too easy for someone to grab it and exit the car as the doors close.
The fact that this kind of thinking is necessary makes me so sad and angry for you.
It’s really sad, but for perspective, take that crime of theft, multiple it by tens of thousands up to millions of times larger, and you have the CEO’s, the oligarchs, the billionaires, the POTUS.
We know how to fix this - it starts with holding their biggest crooks accountable, then making sure everyone has their basic needs met, social trust gets restored as people are no longer desperate.
You’re awesome, just thought I needed to say that.
Yeah. On my city’s light rail I can literally leave my phone charging next to my seat when I go to the bathroom and no one will take it. In fact it’s common for people to do that.
Our public transit doesn’t have bathrooms or phone chargers :(
Ya’ll have a bathroom on your light rail? Are we still talking about simple metro systems are is that not a full-blown “train”(I put it quotes because they’re all trains, but you get the idea).
It’s like halfway between a train and a tram and it goes partially underground.
I think light rail is the right name?
Meanwhile:
https://www.nydailynews.com/2025/04/04/two-teens-stabbed-in-bronx-subway-station-robbery/ (yesterday)
https://pix11.com/news/local-news/manhattan/woman-raped-inside-nyc-subway-station-nypd/ (Mar 17)
Sure, crime has gone down recently in the subway to pre-pandemic levels, but there was still shit like this regularly pre-pandemic too. Definitely wouldn’t leave your anything alone on the subway in NYC.
Also afaik (been a while) there is no bathroom for you to worry about leaving your stuff, people just piss in the subway cars themselves.
See the thing about transit crime is that it’s such a huge deal that it hits the news so hard when anything like that happens.
Meanwhile how many people have died driving in the last month? It’s such a huge number that it’s not even worth reporting on, it’s just “normal”. Fear is in the eye of the beholder.
I’ll take my chances on the extremely rare likelihood that something happens to me on the subway vs the probability that I’ll be maimed or killed while driving.
I think in reality “rape” is just more of a news story than “car crash.” Really seems obvious to me, actually. Car crashes happen by accident, rape and stabbing takes intention. People being intentionally run over also happens to be a news story usually, fwiw. “Crime” just sells more than “accident.”
Like, a mechanic at your local shop losing a finger is a rare possibility, but unless you live in a small town where it was literally the only thing that happened this week it won’t even be on your local news at 11 either, but if his coworker chases him around the shop and cuts his finger off you bet your ass it’ll be covered by the tri-state area.
In any case I never claimed car crashes were a myth, I claimed that “crime has dropped to pre-pandemic levels” means there’s still plenty crime, as there was pre-pandemic. You saying you’d leave your phone plugged in on the subway and walk to one of those “bathrooms?”
I’m saying you can’t call one mode of transportation “unsafe” while completely ignoring the elephant that is the dangers of driving.
Now find all the deaths on the highway in the last month :)
I’m not claiming that there’s not more deaths on the highway, that’d be crazy considering the highways span the entire country rather than the NYC metro area and also carry more people than the subways, so like, simply by raw numbers “duh.”
the highway network in the United States had a total length of around 4.2 million statute miles. One statute mile is approximately equal to 5,280 feet.
NYC subway length: 248 mi (399 km) (route length) 665 mi (1,070 km) (track length, revenue) 850 mi (1,370 km) (track length, total)
Yeah 4.2 million miles compared to 248 miles? Again I’m required to say “duh.”
Conversely, though I never claimed The Highways were paragons of safety, others claimed the Subway is, when in fact the crime is simply “back down to pre-pandemic levels” which is to say “very much still there, but better, sure.”
So compare the deaths per mile traveled, per time travelled, per person who uses each as their main mode of transport, whichever metric you think would give a good representation of the relative risk of taking the subway versus driving on the highway
It is sad. It wasn’t always like this. When I was growing up I could walk anywhere as a kid and every adult on the block had their eye on me. A lot has changed in NYC in 40 years.
My brother in Christ, NYC was fucking wild in the 80’s. How are you even comparing?
It was, but neighbors were more aware and vigilant. People spent more time outside in the streets in residential areas, and knew their neighbors. I remember walking with my sister to get Italian ices when I was no more than 10 years old, and every other building had neighbors out front waving hello. We also couldn’t do anything we shouldn’t be doing without someone yelling from across the way. Now the same neighborhood seems lifeless and desolate. People just stay inside and mind their own. It’s just not as communal as it used to be.
You should read “Death and Life of Great American Cities” by Jane Jacobs, because it talks about this. Basically, having more people on the sidewalk makes for healthier, safer, neighborhoods. Having everyone drive instead of walking is really bad for pretty much every metric we care about- safety, the environment, economic activity.
I will. Thanks for the recommendation!
I’m terrified of riding the nyc subway because I don’t understand how it works amd I’ll get lost.
Trains go either this or that direction. Get on the train that goes the direction you want. Get out of the train when it is where you want to be. Done.
Also, you only pay when you enter the system, and it’s a flat fee no matter how far you ride. So if you fuck up and get on the wrong train, just get out and get on the correct train. You don’t have to pay again until you actually leave the system. (I think there are some stations where you can’t change directions without exiting to the street and re-entering, but that’s pretty uncommon.)
its really well designed and easy. with a smartphone, navigating the city is so easy I think a 10yo could do it. that said, my parents might have trouble, but only cause they get freaked out.
I just looked at your metro map. As a San Diego resident, we need to step out game up. We barely have a trolley system compared to your subway.
I grew up on a farm, basically the rural part of a rural county in a rural state. When I visited San Diego I got on a bus going the wrong direction (which isn’t a thing I even realized you could do wrong). Ended up having to wait an hour for another bus in a sketchy part of town, at night, while in cosplay.
Felt like that episode of SpongeBob where they get stuck at Rock Bottom.
I live in San Diego (well, in east county) and it’s particularly a mess here. The geography leads to no real structure, roads just sorta go where they can fit. This and a general lack of public transportation infrastructure means it’s easy to get lost or take forever to get where you’re going. Luckily it’s pretty safe, as cities go. We have a lot of unhoused folks but they’re just here for the weather. I’d rather be stuck downtown somewhere at night than out here in the rural SD area, buncha fuckin white supremacists are my neighbors
Just use your phone now, use transit directions. It’ll tell you exactly where to go. And if you go to the wrong place, you can always just go back
Every time I get scared on a train, I just imagine a video of a train versus a car
I imagine the fear isn’t so much about accidents as it is about interacting with crazy people or crime.
Or getting on the wrong train and be carried away in the wrong direction and miss your appointment.
