More explanation without toxicity. I think I have gotten shit on on lemmy more than I did on reddit by this point.
Don’t get me wrong. I‘m incorrect sometimes but if I see someone being confidently incorrect, I tell them and explain. And if I tell them that I find their attitude lacking and would like to learn, they get even worse.
A lot of people here are just dicks and the moderators don’t react to reports. They can tell you you‘re a fucking moron for not knowing everything and get away with it. Worse, they dogpile on you with their schoolyard bully attitude.
This is kind of a reason for me to leave if this goes on and it will keep other people from joining, hampering the growth.
More explanation without toxicity. I think I have gotten shit on on lemmy more than I did on reddit by this point.
This doesn’t surprise me. I’m more of a lemmy person than I was ever a Reddit person, but I’m in the same boat.
Along with some of the cultural issues that have happened over on masto, I’ve come to suspect, somewhat controversially, that there is a major difficulty in founding a new and niche social media platform off the back of discontent with a major platform. And that’s because unless the discontent and migration is widespread, but instead marginal, those inclined to reject the mainstream in favour of something niche for some reason will often enough include people who aren’t the most naturally social people and can create and establish somewhat unpalatable cultures.
I hope I’m wrong, and hopefully it’s clear that I’m speaking statistically. But it makes some sense and could be real, both here and other Fedi places.
I really like your explanation! Thank you very much. Would you mind helping me make some kind of community with the idea of bringing some anti bullying standards to lemmy?
I have moderation experience both on reddit and on lemmy and I‘m pretty surprised at the passivity of mods here. It’s not that surprising considering that reddit is a single (sueable) entity.
I mean, those in Ireland can already sue for cyberbullying and the rest of the eu hopefully soon follows.
We might find more of our kind and actually get good content on this place as not every sane person leaves after being shit on 3 times a day.
Appreciate the offer, but I’m sorry to say that I’m in no position to take on any sort of commitment like that.
That being said, are you aware of beehaw? If not, you might want to check out their instance and their documentation. From what I’ve been able to glean, they’re pretty dedicated to creating a more humane social media space, with generally more active moderation than anywhere else on lemmy (they, as you might know, blocked lemmy.world, and are rather unhappy at the lack of moderation tooling in lemmy the platform).
Otherwise, if you do find yourself setting something up, let me know. I’ll likely check it out and be involved however I can!
Thank you very much for the information and kind words. I will absolutely check them out. I‘ll also try to hit you up if I decide to make a community dedicated to the cause.
Last thing: The reason I‘m so adamant about this is that I feel like we are having this massive problem with people being bullied all around the globe (by their bosses, coworkers, schoolmates, parents, you name it).
When they complain, most people answer with „suck it up“ or „your own fault“ or „bad but can’t do anything“ which leads to suicides, school shootings, cults, political extremists.
All because people are not feeling heard and stuff is not properly explained to them. Instead they are ridiculed, pathologized and beaten into submission by the „normal“ (just larger in numbers) crowd.
And I feel like those of us who have already split from real life because they can’t take it anymore are now bullied even more online.
Sorry for the rant. I just needed to say this. Thanks for reading. Have a good one.
Any conclusions or constructive ideas to take from this?
I mean we could potentially have all kinds of policies, technical solutions or learnings for future platforms. At this point I struggle a bit to imagine a way to apply what you’re saying.
Best I can think of is that open sign ups for a brew and niche platform are probably not the best idea or are at least risky for the reasons I stated.
Sign up by application and approval like lemmy.ml and beehaw, from what I’ve seen, actually work at filtering out bad actors.
For something that scales better, an invite system could work well. An interesting extension of that might be to record who invites and maybe enforce some sort of responsibility for the people you invite. Nothing extreme but just to prevent people from knowingly inviting douche bags.
Beyond all of that, realising, at a moderation level that there are bad actors and actively banning them is more important than you might seem in the early stages of a platform.
As for us, reporting bad actors as often as we can might be best seen as a responsibility for the sake of the platform. Actively willing to then e to let them know they’re out of line too.
I wasn’t really aware of this. But now that I’m thinking about it, I’ve also had contact with a few annoying people on some of the more popular and ‘open’ communities. And usually a nicer atmosphere on the more focused (‘nerd’) communities. Just to be clear: There are also many exceptionally nice and helpful people here on Lemmy.
I’ve been critizising beehaw for their way of de-federating at will, a feature that’s unfortunately also designed badly. And causing all kinds of trouble for the rest of the fediverse and effectively dividing people. Just my opinion. I get the point but I think this is detrimental to the fediverse as a whole and shows small-minded thinking. But I only know half of the story. Maybe I’m wrong here.
I share your view of things. And I’m not sure about a conclusion. Maybe it’s something like an invite system. But that takes away from being welcoming to new people. I like to take pride into allowing people to take part, no matter who they are. But allowing everyone in has the obvious consequence of you needing to deal with the a-holes later, when it’s more difficult. And I don’t think an application form slows down people who like to be emotional and argumentative or troll.
I’ve been part of PeerTube for a while. And during the pandemic, there was a massive inrush of Covid-deniers and conspiracy theorists. After some time they got banned from, or got in trouble on the major platforms. And they started flooding PeerTube with re-uploads of their most crazy stuff. To the point where everyone was annoyed and new users immediately been turned away after having a glimpse of a timeline of one of the instances. It’s been some hard work, but we confined them to a corner of their own and cleaned the timelines of the major instances. To highjack one of their terms: I think this has been my ‘awakening’… Regarding ‘free speech’ vs ‘moderation’. And dynamics like we’re just now talking about. We can’t directly compare our situation here on Lemmy to the events on PeerTube or Mastodon. But we can (and should) draw conclusions.
For Lemmy, there are a few low hanging fruit left. I mean when it comes to technical solutions. Better moderation tools etc. And things are already been worked on. But I’ve always been curious about the sociological aspects. It’s been mainly one big migration event for us here. It felt like a revolution and a fresh start after Reddit. And people picked up on this. Nonetheless we’re often rebuilding the structures we already know. Sometimes including the tone of speaking with another.
I 100% agree on your assessment that moderation in the early stages has an important effect. We’re in the process of inventing/defining this place. Every interaction counts. From the atmosphere and tone the users set, to what moderators deem appropriate behaviour, to how instance admins handle disagreements and security incidents.
I have to think about this a bit more. My main takeway at this point is: Next time I want to say ‘I wish more people would realize Twitter is a bad place, Elon is making it worse by the day, and they should leave and use the better alternative…’. I’ll stop and think about the consequences and if this is really what I want or need.
More explanation without toxicity. I think I have gotten shit on on lemmy more than I did on reddit by this point.
Don’t get me wrong. I‘m incorrect sometimes but if I see someone being confidently incorrect, I tell them and explain. And if I tell them that I find their attitude lacking and would like to learn, they get even worse.
A lot of people here are just dicks and the moderators don’t react to reports. They can tell you you‘re a fucking moron for not knowing everything and get away with it. Worse, they dogpile on you with their schoolyard bully attitude.
This is kind of a reason for me to leave if this goes on and it will keep other people from joining, hampering the growth.
I really hope this changes.
This doesn’t surprise me. I’m more of a lemmy person than I was ever a Reddit person, but I’m in the same boat.
Along with some of the cultural issues that have happened over on masto, I’ve come to suspect, somewhat controversially, that there is a major difficulty in founding a new and niche social media platform off the back of discontent with a major platform. And that’s because unless the discontent and migration is widespread, but instead marginal, those inclined to reject the mainstream in favour of something niche for some reason will often enough include people who aren’t the most naturally social people and can create and establish somewhat unpalatable cultures.
I hope I’m wrong, and hopefully it’s clear that I’m speaking statistically. But it makes some sense and could be real, both here and other Fedi places.
I really like your explanation! Thank you very much. Would you mind helping me make some kind of community with the idea of bringing some anti bullying standards to lemmy?
I have moderation experience both on reddit and on lemmy and I‘m pretty surprised at the passivity of mods here. It’s not that surprising considering that reddit is a single (sueable) entity.
I mean, those in Ireland can already sue for cyberbullying and the rest of the eu hopefully soon follows.
We might find more of our kind and actually get good content on this place as not every sane person leaves after being shit on 3 times a day.
Appreciate the offer, but I’m sorry to say that I’m in no position to take on any sort of commitment like that.
That being said, are you aware of beehaw? If not, you might want to check out their instance and their documentation. From what I’ve been able to glean, they’re pretty dedicated to creating a more humane social media space, with generally more active moderation than anywhere else on lemmy (they, as you might know, blocked lemmy.world, and are rather unhappy at the lack of moderation tooling in lemmy the platform).
Otherwise, if you do find yourself setting something up, let me know. I’ll likely check it out and be involved however I can!
Thank you very much for the information and kind words. I will absolutely check them out. I‘ll also try to hit you up if I decide to make a community dedicated to the cause.
Last thing: The reason I‘m so adamant about this is that I feel like we are having this massive problem with people being bullied all around the globe (by their bosses, coworkers, schoolmates, parents, you name it).
When they complain, most people answer with „suck it up“ or „your own fault“ or „bad but can’t do anything“ which leads to suicides, school shootings, cults, political extremists.
All because people are not feeling heard and stuff is not properly explained to them. Instead they are ridiculed, pathologized and beaten into submission by the „normal“ (just larger in numbers) crowd.
And I feel like those of us who have already split from real life because they can’t take it anymore are now bullied even more online.
Sorry for the rant. I just needed to say this. Thanks for reading. Have a good one.
You too!
Any conclusions or constructive ideas to take from this?
I mean we could potentially have all kinds of policies, technical solutions or learnings for future platforms. At this point I struggle a bit to imagine a way to apply what you’re saying.
Well it’s probably tricky!
Best I can think of is that open sign ups for a brew and niche platform are probably not the best idea or are at least risky for the reasons I stated.
Sign up by application and approval like lemmy.ml and beehaw, from what I’ve seen, actually work at filtering out bad actors.
For something that scales better, an invite system could work well. An interesting extension of that might be to record who invites and maybe enforce some sort of responsibility for the people you invite. Nothing extreme but just to prevent people from knowingly inviting douche bags.
Beyond all of that, realising, at a moderation level that there are bad actors and actively banning them is more important than you might seem in the early stages of a platform.
As for us, reporting bad actors as often as we can might be best seen as a responsibility for the sake of the platform. Actively willing to then e to let them know they’re out of line too.
Thanks for replying. And for your input.
I wasn’t really aware of this. But now that I’m thinking about it, I’ve also had contact with a few annoying people on some of the more popular and ‘open’ communities. And usually a nicer atmosphere on the more focused (‘nerd’) communities. Just to be clear: There are also many exceptionally nice and helpful people here on Lemmy.
I’ve been critizising beehaw for their way of de-federating at will, a feature that’s unfortunately also designed badly. And causing all kinds of trouble for the rest of the fediverse and effectively dividing people. Just my opinion. I get the point but I think this is detrimental to the fediverse as a whole and shows small-minded thinking. But I only know half of the story. Maybe I’m wrong here.
I share your view of things. And I’m not sure about a conclusion. Maybe it’s something like an invite system. But that takes away from being welcoming to new people. I like to take pride into allowing people to take part, no matter who they are. But allowing everyone in has the obvious consequence of you needing to deal with the a-holes later, when it’s more difficult. And I don’t think an application form slows down people who like to be emotional and argumentative or troll.
I’ve been part of PeerTube for a while. And during the pandemic, there was a massive inrush of Covid-deniers and conspiracy theorists. After some time they got banned from, or got in trouble on the major platforms. And they started flooding PeerTube with re-uploads of their most crazy stuff. To the point where everyone was annoyed and new users immediately been turned away after having a glimpse of a timeline of one of the instances. It’s been some hard work, but we confined them to a corner of their own and cleaned the timelines of the major instances. To highjack one of their terms: I think this has been my ‘awakening’… Regarding ‘free speech’ vs ‘moderation’. And dynamics like we’re just now talking about. We can’t directly compare our situation here on Lemmy to the events on PeerTube or Mastodon. But we can (and should) draw conclusions.
For Lemmy, there are a few low hanging fruit left. I mean when it comes to technical solutions. Better moderation tools etc. And things are already been worked on. But I’ve always been curious about the sociological aspects. It’s been mainly one big migration event for us here. It felt like a revolution and a fresh start after Reddit. And people picked up on this. Nonetheless we’re often rebuilding the structures we already know. Sometimes including the tone of speaking with another.
I 100% agree on your assessment that moderation in the early stages has an important effect. We’re in the process of inventing/defining this place. Every interaction counts. From the atmosphere and tone the users set, to what moderators deem appropriate behaviour, to how instance admins handle disagreements and security incidents.
I have to think about this a bit more. My main takeway at this point is: Next time I want to say ‘I wish more people would realize Twitter is a bad place, Elon is making it worse by the day, and they should leave and use the better alternative…’. I’ll stop and think about the consequences and if this is really what I want or need.
Weird, my experience in Lemmy is much more positive compared to Reddit. Usually I can have better discussion here compared to my time at reddit.
Understandable. As a straight white male, my experience in job seeking for example is usually much better than people in any other config.
Harassment is usually not a problem if you‘re part of the majority. If you don’t deviate from that, you‘re good.
But if you‘re more of a nerd, gay, autistic, or any other of the things that severely deviate from the norm, you can have a bad time fast.