- cross-posted to:
- worldofwarcraft@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- worldofwarcraft@lemmy.world
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At this time I’d like to shill for Warframe.
The game is free. The battlepasses are free. The lootboxes are free. The ways you open those lootboxes are also free. The premium currency is a tradable item, so it is 100% viable to get it and buy premium shit without ever spending real money. Digital Extremes (the devs) once accidentally created a gambling machine (for pet cosmetics), and upon discovering what they did, removed it from the game and refunded everyone who spent money on it.
Warframe is the one game that I’ve spent more money on than any other game, I’m not biased, you’re biased.
EDIT: I’m glad that people around here like warframe.
EvE is similar but with a functional economy including scammers, thieves and general douchebags… And spaceships, is pretty fun but extremely addicting and technical.
The problem with Eve is that you will have to join a big group to enjoy it, and if you join one up, you are increasingly going to feel the pressure to whale if you are a normal player who isn’t min-maxing the system. The game is chock full of whales.
I’m a miner, my father was a miner, my mother’s a miner, my father’s father was a miner.
Yeah some pressure you sure but I just stayed with newbie guilds and turned to helping people instead.
Honestly some of the technically non combat classes are quite fun. It’s been awhile since I’ve been on but I have more money than I could honestly figure out what to do with just from mining.
That said yeah even mining has spreadsheets, which is both neat and kinda daunting.
The people who are most successful don’t just stick to one defined job, they min-max to the extreme. They can be taking down freighters with their multiboxed destroyers one day, and they can be multibox moon mining with orcas the following day.
I don’t believe there is anything fun about mining. It’s just an activity that when you believe you’ve sufficiently secured yourself enough you can do with relative minimal investment in it. Usually the people who mine the most aren’t enjoying Eve, they are enjoying the conversations and the Netflix they are watching on the side. About the only thing tickling the dopamine with mining is getting to think you are getting ahead from doing a comparatively less stressful activity for longer than other people doing riskier activities more prone to failure and doing so for less amount of time, allowing you to fantasize about how you will spend your gains in the future. Mining barely has any user involvement as a game mechanic in Eve, there are idle games with more user interaction.
Ok that’s a very good argument as to why you hate mining. It’s not however a good excuse for anyone else to not like it.
Do what you please, don’t be an elitist, it’s one why people don’t even try to play. Similarly you say there’s no engagement but people presumably like you tend to heckle and try to murder miners because they “aren’t playing the game” though most of the resources in the game are available solely because they’d been mined, no miners no resources… You know like an economy.
You’ve suddenly brought up “hate mining” and “elitist” out of nowhere, when all I did was make observations about the activity. It is not inherently fun IMO. You also bring out “no engagement”, which is another gross exaggeration of minimal engagement. And if you think the gankers aren’t mining, you really haven’t gotten out of your solar system to explore. You seem to be stuck within the bubble even within the game, and you will be socially manipulated for it.
I haven’t played Eve in years, and have only “ganked” in a few minor instances and enough to realize that it also wasn’t a fun mechanic, it was just exploiting the uninformed and the careless within the statistics, and it didn’t so much require effort or skill so much as preparation. There’s also quite a bit of a similarity between the dopamine hook the people who gank have to the people who mine, although there’s a lot more sadism as well.
I don’t believe there is anything fun about mining. It’s just an activity that when you believe you’ve sufficiently secured yourself enough you can do with relative minimal investment in it. Usually the people who mine the most aren’t enjoying Eve, they are enjoying the conversations and the Netflix they are watching on the side. About the only thing tickling the dopamine with mining is getting to think you are getting ahead from doing a comparatively less stressful activity for longer than other people doing riskier activities more prone to failure and doing so for less amount of time, allowing you to fantasize about how you will spend your gains in the future. Mining barely has any user involvement as a game mechanic in Eve, there are idle games with more user interaction.
I think that is pretty self explanatory.
And if you think the gankers aren’t mining, you really haven’t gotten out of your solar system to explore. You seem to be stuck within the bubble even within the game, and you will be socially manipulated for it.
Not at all, that said the vast majority is done by contracted mining corps. If the mining corps shut down today within 3 months the game would be entirely different and mining would be a necessity for all but the ultra rich. Similarly aren’t you in a socially manipulated bubble as well? You’re spouting literal in-game billboard propaganda.
So gankers also aren’t playing correctly to you, what exactly is the point of the game again according to you? Who’s playing right enough for you?
I miss having time to play Eve - big fleet battles were fucking epic but I can’t dedicate the hours anymore.
Yes I’m aware there are ways to have quicker fun, I remember faction warfare, but that’s even hard to do when you have to drop at a moments notice (kids don’t pause well).
Yeah no matter what you do in it is a major investment in time.
man do I wish I was smart enough to play EVE.
S Tier game
Don’t look at my steam hours
WF isn’t pay to win.
Its pay to look fly.
I was playing the first descendant. They had free armor dye giveaways.
- can’t use them unless you can a skin
- when you do use it then it’s gone. Stuck on that character AND skin…
Fuck that game right there.
Color packs cost like $2.50 for a paintjob in TFD and that’s like 5 colors.
Warframe has color themes with a full set of things like camo, smoke or sky. You unlock the pallete and you can reuse it everywhere in your account.
looking kickass does measurably increase my enjoyment with the game
Just past week restarted the game and I love finding random Tenno in these comments. Hadn’t played for a year or more and it’s still going strong with exciting new content free for everyone to play. If you’re bored of the loot-n-shoot part you can go fishing, decorating, trading, horseriding and whatever else is in the game.
Also love to look for streamers starting fresh and reliving the awe of the game through them.
I love warframe, but having to level every piece of gear up fills my brain with anxiety for some reason so I can’t play it much. The combat loop is pure happy chemical.
there’s so much that you can focus mostly on just gear you’re interested in. mastering %100 of everything is just not a thing that is reasonable unless you want to sink all of your time forever. It also gets easier to start leveling new gear as you progress.
I come back every year or so and play for a month or two each time, still haven’t spent money on it (but starting to think I should, to support the devs)
DE absolutely rules. In an era of constant enshittification, it’s so nice to have a dev that is actively, constantly working to improve the player experience. From consistent bug fixes and engine optimizations, to little additions like reworks of old frames and new ways to interact with old content, to the massive story expansions like Whispers in the Walls and the upcoming 1999, it’s just a great time to be a Warframe player.
remember when coptering was a thing and instead of just patching that bug they implemented a whole new movement system which includes bullet jumping? yeah, another dev would have just patched it out and give a middle finger to everyone who grew accustomed to that level of mobility.
Wait, what was that about the pet cosmetics? I must’ve been on hiatus when that went down.
At the time, changing the colors and patterns of the fur of your kitty and doggo were tied to a randomized drop, which there was a roundabout way to just buy chances for. Some dude spend literally thousands of dollars just to get his doggo to look the way he wanted.
Oh shit… that explains the weird-ass pallettes for pets, I guess.
Damn.
100000% with you. Warframe and DE are amazing.
It’s just so difficult ro get back into it, I didn’t play for about 4 years because I got tired of playing on Ps4. Tried playing again when I could transfer my save to pc, but didn’t even know where to start again. There is too much to do, and little to no guidance.
Hate to say this, but just restart. They revamped the “new player” experience and imo does a decent job of telling you where to go and getting you started. Once you get your bearing again, you might want to reclaim your old account or just stay where you are.
if it’s been long enough, the game will just make you do the new player experience all over again even if you’re playing on an old account. Happened to me when I took a hiatus a while back.
Yeah, I considered restarting, but I really don’t want to start from scratch. If I have to start from zero I’d rather not play at all.
That is the tough part. I’m the sherpa for my friend group, I’ll answer questions to the best of my ability until I either pass out or get too drukn to continue, if you feel so inclined to ask.
Whales are the idiots who keep the Madden games alive.
The biggest reason of why I struggle to get into any of the subscription-based games, because none of them are only subscription based, they charge you both for the game and the subscription afterward so you have both the price of the game plus any type of expansion packs plus the subscription cost monthly afterward and that’s without including any of the microtransactions. I don’t know why anyone plays them
I’ve completely stopped playing MMOs, but there is a difference when it’s an online service. What I consider absurd are the publishers and developers who close down their MMOs when they still have players who have invested and will invest money into it, without even considering selling it off. I’m looking at you, NCSoft. Almost happened to Spiral Knights, and because it didn’t, it’s still going. It’s like they think that people playing them are players that would otherwise playing their new MMOs, when the reality is they avoid those publishers that don’t respect their persistence and investment.
There’s also a lot of MMO’s with no subscription and plenty of whaling. But cosmetics are cosmetics, there’s people that can legitimately complain about a $90 dollar mount if it gives an unfair advantage when they would otherwise not mind paying for just cosmetics. But there are people who don’t mind unfair advantages in certain games either, as long as they have a F2P model and the devs have a good rep.
Nowadays, what drives me off is the feeling of never getting the full experience, having to constantly feel that way to avoid getting caught in predatory addiction loops they implement, and just being able to buy a full, self-contained experience for what would otherwise be two months of subscription in an MMO.
The difference mostly is that the old games were games built first and microtransactions second. Slowly creeping up the invasive methods. Which is acceptable for most people.
However new games have a fully fledged out microtransaction system and shop and the whole game is built around maximising profits. Just like mobile games are.
It is rare that when you put the money first you will produce a game that is fun. And definitely not possible to make a good one.
I have the strangest hunch that if a large MMO or game with lootboxes decided to make every item available via unlocks for free but make them all immediately buyable now, they’d have a nice business model. The player isn’t buying exclusivity or an advantage, they’re buying convenience.
Warframe heard that
deleted by creator
The Past “We made this game, and if you like it and want to support further development, we have these small DLC bundles, some skins or what not… Nothing fancy, but we wanna work on new maps to keep the game alive. There’s no obligation, the maps will be provided free of charge, we’re just happy the playerbase is so enthused”
Now “We’ve made a new venue for buying skins, the marketing people call it a game? Look whatever, oh and while some of these skins look unremarkable, remember they’re only available for a limited time and those will cost 30% more than normal, but if you don’t buy it you’ll regret it forever when we take it away, either forever or until the GOTY edition.”
(Seriously: Ban FOMO)
Seriously it has gotten to the point where games are so content bare that people are talking about the DLC before the main game’s out.
Mortal Kombat 1 made that mistake so hard it had to start giving skins away to try to goad me into playing it again. Great story, terrible gameplay… weirdly the opposite of Mortal Kombat 11… (Maybe it’ll help if your big DLC expansion wasn’t 2 characters that are literally just genderflipped recolors… How weird is that Cyrax and Sektor are female now. I mean, normally that’s fine whatever, but in the context that Liu Kang created this universe to be his ideal, did he just have a Rule 63 kink for Cyber Ninjas or something? Or did turning the Transhumanists into Transgenders seem like too hilarious a pun for him?)
Good to see that Dark Legacy Comics is still not funny after all these years
A joke so old it has grandkids.
At least the art got “better”.
Actually, it’s ugly as sin, isn’t it? The artist probably should have spent more time on the characters hands in the last panel instead of giving his face a tilt. Oh well, at least he’s trying.
What the fuck did I just watch?
And where can I get more?
the guy’s yt channel? https://www.youtube.com/@shapiro127/videos
although I wanted to go with my misrembered futurama quote “There aren’t anymore. and there never will be anymore”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGeUfYusTf4&t=19s
but I remembered the quote wrong
Disgraceful behavior…
Right my Sims? looks to how horribly her game is glitching up due to owning more expansions than Maxis ever intended for Sims 4 to actually have
But for real, the idea of an MMO still requiring a monthly fee in 2024 is ridiculous.
in 1998 when it was a new concept and a lot of money had to go into maintaining the sheer volume of people using servers at a time when the internet couldn’t handle more than 20 Star Trek fanboys at once without using up all the bandwith, sure. I could see that.
But in 2024 where even small Indie studios can afford regular free content updates and still make a profit from word of mouth game sales? Yeaaah no.
I remember the first big MMORPG that was on the internet: Ultima Online. I wanted to play it back in the day, but I couldn’t because I was far too young to have my own credit card to pay (and my dad was quite firmly not going to pay) and in the very late 90s, at least where I lived, the internet was still a pay-as-you-play affair, meaning every second you spent was logged and charged on your next phone bill. Sometime around 2000 or very early 2001 the internet got some plans by the company that had us pay a single fixed fee, so I could remain online as long as I wanted without worrying about a skyrocketting bill.
I’m confused, is this a serious take? How they make their money leads to how the game is designed and who for. If it’s advertising it’s shit. If it’s microtransactions it becomes about min-maxing annoyance for most gamers while attracting whales, gambling and is shit. Monthly subscriptions is a model that needs loyalty and should attract people who want to “live” in an permanent virtual game world.
Ideally I’d want a global “entertainment subscription” non-profit that is funding projects for the players benefits and is somewhat crowd-controlled like a socialist bank.
MMO still requiring a monthly fee in 2024 is ridiculous.
May I point you to Call of Duty on consoles? They are Massive Multiplayer Online (MMO) that needs a monthly subscription (Xbox Live, which owns Cal of Duty, or PS Plus).
Online gaming has more people paying for an online subscription today than ever before (Nintendo Online included). While the companies being paid for it have changed, monthly online gaming subscriptions are here to stay and have only gotten larger.
That’s ok this is a LIVE SERVICE GAME. Definitely not the same as an MMO. Definitely.
Also I bought that Brutosaur and a friggin love it. Best QOL feature in the game. I don’t even play WoW more than a few times a month.
I now have all services in the game mobile in some way or another: bank, transmog, mail and auction
What makes a MMO different from a live service? Both have characters, levels, character progression exp based on killing enemies and doing X actions/quests, and have new content added as time goes on.
From how I see it, it’s just a different name to just avoid being called a MMO.
At this point, I’d say an MMO is focused more on the social side, I guess. MMO is a subset of Live Service for sure, but it’s distinct from the usual games in that category.
Plus more players able to be in one place. Just earlier I joined a FFXIV hunt train, with 150 players whizzing about taking down bosses for currency. Don’t really get that in a bog standard Live Service game.
An MMO has a world filled with players, while the likes of Destiny typically just have a hub or menu to get to the gameplay bits.
Yeah. That was my point.
Uhhh, when did call of duty transition from lobby queuing to MMO?
Lobby queuing for has always been a thing in MMOs.
Dude that isn’t remotely the same thing as a lobby queue style game lol
Words mean things and cod isn’t an MMO
MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online. Does this not describe CoD?
Okay, as funny as it is, I don’t think the people who are complaining are the ones who are actually purchasing. I am pretty sure that the people who are the majority spenders are not even aware of the hatred on the internet for microtransactions, or even if they are aware, they do not see it as worthwhile concern.
It is easy to get lost in the noise, as many things on internet, everything becomes an echo chamber. But in reality there are a lot of people who thinks it is justified. That somebody is asking for money to deliver a product or a service and they don’t care how the equation of "what is worth what " is derived.
For them, its just inflation or expense to cover the cost (basically they take publishers counterpoint at face value, can’t blame them honestly), and since it has become the norm, they have given up on taking a moral stance om this and following through
Acquaintance of mine just dgaf. He’ll get banned on a game for cheating and just spend another 60.- to get another copy. DLCs, micro transactions, pay to win, doesn’t matter. He’s a cancer on the whole industry.
I used to be an avid Plants Vs. Zombies player and I won the Jade League No. 1 spot and earned almost every plant that could be earned and I did it without paying a single dime in real life money. I eventually quit because after you finish the main game and win the Jade League (even once) there really isn’t much else for you to do, and when you grind up your plants’ exp to the level I got them the games become a sinch.
Or you can be the etherium guy: get pissy about in game horse armor and make a vehicle for even worse scams.
Yeah where’s Ahab when we need him?
Are the whales the ones complaining? Because the whole concept of a whale is that they are the exception. The vast majority of players pay only the minimum amount or slightly more, but the whales dump so much money in that they are still worth more to the devs than the other 99% of players combined.
The whales wouldn’t complain about this one anyways. When this mount was available in-game on the auction house it was probably around 5x the price in USD assuming you bought wow tokens.
You’re right. The definition of a whale includes that he has enough money to not complain about any price at all.
Except complaining is his kink… Then he gets double the satisfaction from his payments.
A whale doesn’t need enough money not to complain. The tactics used to attract whales are meant to build or take advantage of addictions. When I was drinking I would regularly complain about the cost of alcohol yet still spend much more than I could afford on it
Whales aren’t people who can afford whatever, so they spend whatever. Whales are people invested enough that the perceived value added is more than the money it costs. Most whales, therefore, are regular people who are addicted to the game rather than moneybags who could easily afford it. So yeah, it does smell of victim blaming. We should be calling out the bad business practice, rather than calling out those being victimized by the bad business practice.
Or the whale is German, because complaining is a national past time.
“price gouge me harder, Daddy!”
buys shit
violently orgasms
You know who look like whales? Problem spenders who spend far beyond their means, and are preyed upon by predatory business practices that use psychological manipulation to encourage people to spend as much as as they can. Like, I’ve literally watched video game developer conference talks where a dev explains in great detail and depth on how to hijack human psychology to milk every last dollar they can. Whales stopped being “those who can afford to spend” a long time ago.
I’ve seen whales complain. Maybe not whales, but people who pay for skins and random bullshit
It’s the same as how most airlines operate. The first and business class sections make up the majority of the profit, even though they are just a small fraction of the passengers.
In FFXIV, most multi people mounts are paid for, but they did have an event where they have one that can hold 4 people. There is a paid mount that holds 8 people, and it’s a whale. It’s the most expensive mount at just $42. There is no reason you should want to carry 8 people because everyone should have a mount.
Some people mentioned there are some additional features locked behind the specific mount this comic is lambasting. Something about AH and mailbox. I haven’t played WoW so not sure how much of an advantage that is, but the closest FFXIV analogue imo is the extra retainers.
You only have 2 by default and pay an additional $2 a month for any extra. They allow you to basically bot farm some items every 30m to an hour(depends on how below your retainers level the target is) as well as more storage and selling capacity. Nothing is explicitly gated by it, but those who spend the money have a higher capability to earn in game money and/or have greater convenience if they use it properly.
For those of us who have had extra retainers for years, it’s cost us way more than $90, but it’s not a single huge purchase so can definitely seem like less in your head if you don’t take that one small step of reasoning.
I think it’s mostly the parents of whales who are complaining.
I started boycotting all paid digital subscription services when World of Warcraft came out.
So to me; you’re the problem. Anyone who isn’t boycotting all paid digital subscription services is the problem.
Weird take but more power to you my friend
Subscription fees for frequently updated MMOs aren’t unreasonable. I refuse to pay them, but I don’t begrudge their existence. MTX on top of that are another matter - that shit should only exist in F2P MMOs.
Wtf are you talking about? The user you’re responding to is just clarifying the term “whale”.
If you ignore what else they say:
The vast majority of players pay only the minimum amount or slightly more,
Of course they’re making this claim because that’s what they do. Listen: BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT - stop funding things you don’t want to see in this world. Stop funding things you don’t want to reward.
If you do reward these actions (such as new subscription model services), or you’re justifying them in online commentary (as the comment I replied to was, as you are) then you have no right to complain about them - because they were funded by you.
It’s like paying the minimum on a Kickstarter for killing kittens, then commenting “Yes, but it’s really the whales funding it”.
Not if you’re all funding it too. That still counts as funding it! STOP LYING TO YOURSELF!
You’re raging against a discussion on nomenclature and blaming anyone that responds to you for your off-topic crusade. Maybe take a moment think about that.
Remember the Boycott for Call of Duty? And most of them were playing on Day 1.
This is so bad that it reminded me of reddit protest that I managed to forget about. xD
The worst part was how people that couldnt get off the platform called terminally online to those who could.
I’m so glad I got clean
I thought I was immune until I got sucked into some game where you battle with teams of players you collect and fight other players. There was some element of sending your titans to mine resources as well, but I forget the name of the game, but spent over $500 in it.
I literally uninstall any game that has gems, emeralds, coins that can be bought to speed things up.
I put 5 dollars into the clash of clans card game, realized they could very easily have had me for more, turned off the game, uninstalled, and never looked back (I don’t think I even used the currency I had purchased).
It was a good moment of realization, glad I got out for 5 dollars.
They could’ve made so much more with all the permissions I’d given them XD
Dark legacy comics has been my only source for wow.
I played when they “re released” classic, just before they bent over backwards to please China (that was a big reason I stopped, the other was classic wasn’t classic, there was so much jank in it that had clearly not been qc’d), now I read about the adventures of the dlcomics cast and that’s more than enough for me.
The entire reason people wanted to play classic was because of the jank.
Nah, there were things like floating sign posts, and enemies in places they shouldn’t have been.
It was absolutely not the game that was released 22 years ago. Also they said they didn’t re-tune the enemies, but everything was easier, so maybe it wasn’t re-tuned, but it was differently tuned
Maybe you’re just a better player then you were as a teen
Bwahaha, would love if that was the case. Maybe I was more aggressive as a teen? Maybe I pushed harder into areas where I was under leveled? Except I know that isn’t the case because I’m much more impatient as a gamer the days. I know that food and water were much more important to have on hand because of how frequently you’d need to rest between mobs I remember reaching the next tier of food and being relieved that I didn’t have to wait the entire 20 seconds, sometimes more if I needed 2 rounds of water to fill my mana bar, on the re-release there was barely any down time when grinding the lower levels.
I’m often one to question people’s rose tinted glasses, and I’m not upset for anyone to question my memory, but the"classic" release was made (not saying intentionally) easier than the original release (as a day 1 release player, through cataclysm)
Man I want to get clean, but you don’t understand they have three more states coming out on American Truck Simulator and I am desperate to travel to them in game.
I mean it’s an awesome game and truly don’t feel I wasted the money. Except now maybe I have. I have checked the game is not available outside of Steam. You can’t buy a physical copy and not have it tied to online. If they decided to not support it or go out business I will lose everything.
Yeah need rethink playing that game.
I do understand. I used to stay up playing WoW until sunrise. I used to have an in-game alarm set at 2 AM IRL to remind me to go to bed. I ground dailies until I hated them.
From one gamer to another: get out while you can. For one thing, I missed out on a LOT of good games because I was playing WoW. And the expansions are always a tease; the entire xpac and all of your work is going to be useless the very instant the next one drops. More than anything, I didn’t like who I was when I played WoW.
I quit something like 5 or 6 years ago I think (sometime during the disaster that was Battle for Azeroth) and boy am I glad I did. Sometimes I miss Azeroth, but that is a relationship that will drain your very soul. Gotta do one more daily. One more dungeon. One more raid. Then I’ll have enough widgets to buy the gizmo! And honestly, I was never even that good. Pretty much everything in my life has improved since I quit WoW. Not all of it was because of crippling gaming addiction, of course, but it made every aspect of my life more difficult.
All of the above applies to Elite: Dangerous as well. If you are at the point where you are rethinking your relationship with a game, its long past time to stop playing.
