cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/3320637
YouTube and Reddit are sued for allegedly enabling the racist mass shooting in Buffalo that left 10 dead::The complementary lawsuits claim that the massacre in 2022 was made possible by tech giants, a local gun shop, and the gunman’s parents.
Youtube needs to be punished for their hypocrisy.
Average Joe gets a community guidelines strike for “promoting violence” because he said “Dead” instead of “Unalived”, but Penis Prager can advocate for beating your gay kids till they turn straight and YouTube just throws it into everyone’s playlists without so much as a “Boys will be boys”
Who is going to punish them? The leaders who agree with Prager that you can beat the gay out of your kids aren’t gonna get behind that.
A significant portion of our population is hoping for a way to degay their kids.
Man, I’m gonna be all doom and gloom when I go back to bed here in a few.
For me, it seems hopeless. We’ll all be further radicalized by the thing that I thought for most of my life would bring salvation, our access to the Library of Shitexander. A big old library filled with information, Ricky. Information on the workings of electricity. Information on the life and work of Isaac Newton. Information on how to cannibalize your neighbor. Information on how some grifter talks to god and knows exactly what he wants. We can learn useful skills like, how to hate black people and why we should. We can learn how to kickoff Armageddon, and why nuclear weapons are biblical and mutually assured destruction isn’t only a good thing, it’s what we should strive for.
And because we humans create information, we have arguments about who should decide what kind of information is available. Free speech absolutists will say that anything goes and is fair game. Others will say that some speech is dangerous because it influences hatred and bigotry. Each group has representation and has to compromise in order to keep things from escalating, oh but compromise might escalate things too.
Our species was born from chaos looking for a leader who didn’t exist.
I’m just gonna ride the rock until I’m not riding it any more and hope the people of the future don’t destroy each other and can someday figure out that that god ain’t coming back. What else can we do?
You guys have a good morning. I’m heading back to bed.
Jesus dude, you gave me an existential crisis.
Just ride the rock bud. We’re at least lucky enough to live in a time and place where we can play video games and eat pizza.
I spend too much time listening to and reading about the history of conflict and cults. It’s hard for me to have hope when I see the same thing happening over and over again for thousands of years.
I don’t need hope though because I’m an idiot who can’t change anything.
Good, smart people are out there working for change, seriously working. Maybe they’ll keep things together for a long time.
Maybe you can be one of them.
If not, just ride the rock and enjoy the things you enjoy. Nothing wrong with that.
I’m sorry I put my gloom on you.
Yea no man, you’re absolutely right
When I was radicalized I learned how to ride my bike with no handlebars
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Personally I think everybody should shut the fuck up permanently.
Penis Prager
I see you’re a person of culture as well… I know this reference.
There is a good reason for that, and that is that Penis Prager is a bigger payoff for Google.
yeah but the hypocrisy is so blatant
If you look at anything even remotely related to “men’s interests” YouTube will begin showing you alt right fascist bull shit.
Seriously. I spend a little too much time watching a short that is clearly designed to get me worked up about stereotypical communication difficulties between men & women from a “women, am I rite?” perspective, suddenly I’m getting Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan. I spend a little too much time watching a video about certain Ukrainian war equipment or a Slo Mo Guys video involving guns (wood stock hunting guns, I felt like it was the early 80s all over again before everyone decided they needed assault weapons), suddenly I’m getting served tacticool idiots with kitted-out murder machines. Or I watch a Bart Erhman video (secular New Testament scholar with a large lay audience) and suddenly I get served muslim da’wah/apologetics videos and Catholic catechism ads.
Lots of stupid, emotionally driven teenagers on the platform who think their opinion is reality, so you have a lot of Tate/Peterson/Rogan riders on the platform. Add in the fact ‘controversial’ (blatantly wrong or insane) content gets lots of comments/engagement, so it is pushed by the algorithm. Then there are just lots of idiots in general who don’t want to consider self-reflection or change their vies, so they will eat up all the ideology that shifts the blame or gives them a chance to ‘get to the top.’ They are victims of modern society. But somehow see every ‘problem’ except for the real one, the one of neoliberal ideologies around capitalism and individualism.
I just wish that I could watch (intentionally or accidentally) a slightly hot-take video once in a blue moon without the algorithm deciding I’m a right-wing nutjob that only wants right-wing nutjob content. How hard would it be to allow users to give active input on what they’re getting? Right now, anything I do (downvoting, “don’t recommend this channel”, reporting hate speech) gives me MORE of the shit I hate.
If you look at anything even remotely related to “men’s interests” YouTube will begin showing you alt right fascist bull shit.
Or if you don’t. Youtube shorts recommends Rogan constantly.
If youtube is still pushing racist and alt right content on to people, then they can get fucked. Why should we let some recommender system controlled by a private corporation have this much influence American culture and politics??
I sub to primarily leftist content and their YouTube shorts algorithm insists on recommending the most vile far right content on the planet. It is to the point that I’m convinced YouTube is intentionally trying to shift people far right
I primarily watch woodworking or baking content on Youtube. I feel like the far right content is super prevalent with Shorts. I’ll watch something like a quick tool review, and the next video will be someone asking folks on the street if it’s ok to be white. What color you are isn’t your decision, but what you do every day is, and being some dumbass white kid accosting black tourists in Times Square for shitty reaction content is just gross.
It doesn’t matter how often I say I dislike the content, block channels or whatever, Youtube has just decided it’s going to check in from time to time and see if I want to let loose my inner Boomer and rage with Rogan.
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It could be that pushing videos on the other side of the political spectrum gets interactions in the form of people sharing/commenting on it. Even if you disagree, going “Why does YouTube recommend this, this is awful” is still a share.
The algorithm prioritises interactions above all else, and fewer things get people interacting more than being wrong, or them disagreeing vehemently.
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This is happening on my FB video feed. I watch a funny chick called Charlotte Dobre and she does funny reaction videos. I honestly love her, but all my algorithm shows me for recommendations are these cop brutality videos with comments praising the cops, and right wing crap that praises Abbotts wall and desantis dictatorship. It drives me nuts, and no matter howany pages I block I always get more right wing recommended crap videos
Wow I am so surprised by this. I watch mainly tech and gardening YouTube and my shorts have been extremely applicable to me.
Even when I use a new computer like at work the shorts are mostly pop culture.
Didn’t make shorts any less annoying though
I literally only get Marvel Snap/general gaming, College Humor, tech, educational, stand up comedy, and drones. That’s it. I don’t mean to victim blame, but it learns what you click and what you stay to watch.
Mine acted similar to yours. I recently started watching a few more short videos and now it’s showing me an unfortunate amount of that far right nonsense.
I am pretty sure it is just showing politically charged content based on people watching other politically charged content. I feel the blame is misdirected at something that only provides content people will like based on their past.
Depends entirely on what you’re subscribed to, if you have multiple linked youtube accounts (such as the premium family plan) it depends on what THEY’RE subscribed to, and depends on location (my recommendations at home and my recommendations at work are wildly different)
I wonder if this differs from country to country? Or is it different in Europe vs US? I get maths, engineering, music. Nothing too awful. But there is clearly a fully conscious and malicious push to the right going on on all large platforms. It seems Europe is trying to step in and limit that shit from big US platforms before it’s too late. Then we have censorship looming on the other side of the picture.
I’m in UK and I often get YouTube shorts made by/for US alt right. These include Ben Shapiro, Tucker, Tate and Jordan Peterson - also people complaining about Bud Light. I always dislike this content and alot of the Tate stuff needs reporting.
I’m left wing and very rarely get left wing content. I don’t remember ever being shown any extreme left wing content.
The left wing UK content I get is MPs is Westminster’s making speeches, the UK right wing content is manufactured publicity made by the Tories.
Additionally being in Scotland and liking music seems to cause Google to serve you YouTube shorts of Scottish marching bands. Google doesn’t seem to realise flute (not traditional bagpipe/kilt bands) in Scotland are mostly hate groups. These orange bands are the group that became the KKK in America. They just aren’t recognised as a hate group in the UK because they support monarchy, unionism and are actively courted/involved with both Tories and Labour. Despite playing music encouraging the death of other religious groups and using their marches as intimidation.
True that. I also never see anything really left wing. But then I really try to avoid political stuff on Youtube. I don’t want to see video content that makes me angry.
I’ve noticed that my punk music recommendations always seem to quickly get politically innocuous. It’s like the punk always gets gradually filtered out of my recommendations again, while the math, jazz, world music, metal, botany, craft, etc. remains.
I never really take the effort to dislike anything. Not giving it any time or effort maybe makes a difference? Interesting fact about the Scottish marching bands. Makes me concerned that as a person obsessed with international folk music I might accidentally like something nationalistic. Especially in the Balkans it quickly gets complicated and genocide-y.
I recently started to get a few right wing channels starting to show up but I promptly clicked not interested and blocked them with a Firefox extension
If you ever go on YouTube not logged into your account (or in a provate browser), the default stuff on the homepage are: one lo-fi stream, Mr. Beast latest video, and the rest is all right wing feaemonger stuff.
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Feels good to be reading this somewhere other than reddit
I mean lookingbat the details for the basis of the suit. They think they can sue someone for teaching a criminal how to do something. They think they can sue the makers of body armor for selling a guy who was not a criminal at the time of purchase, an unregulated commercial product. They think they can sue YouTube for providing motive for whatever he did.
In the law world theres a word for this. Its called a shakedown. This is grieving family’s who are vindictive. They dont care who pays, but somebody has to pay in their eyes. Sadly on the merits this case will die in court pretty fast and nobody is gonna see a dollar unless alphabet and spez’s lawyers decide they are feeling charitable. Which they won’t because settling would cause implications of guilt in the public eye.
This is grieving family’s who are vindictive.
I’d blame it on the lawyers.
They dont care who pays, but somebody has to pay in their eyes. Sadly on the merits this case will die in court pretty fast and nobody is gonna see a dollar
The family’s lawyer is getting paid either way.
Yeah some families are vindictive but ALL lawyers are ready to press a case like this as long as they think they can win.
If they think they can win it’s another matter, what I think is happening here is the lawyer is pushing for the case regardless, because they get paid regardless.
I’m not sure that’s true. Families don’t always have deep pockets. The lawyer is paid a % of the settlement, which is probably more money than the family could just pay out of pocket. But it does mean they need to win, so they pick their cases. I mean if you pay them well in cash they’ll likely take any case. But a lot of personal injury cases and such are paid on a percentage.
The lawyer is paid a % of the settlement
Not necessarily, if that was the case I would expect it to be very likely they would win - a lawyer isn’t going to take a case on contingency if they don’t think they will win. More likely the family have a little bit of money saved up and the lawyer is taking advantage of them in their emotional state by encouraging them into a frivilous lawsuit.
It’s a sliding scale built on risk and reward.
They will take the case if they think they can win OR when they only have a chance of winning but the settlement is going to be large.
25% chance of a $10 million settlement with a big corporation: take the case.
90% chance of multi hundred thousand dollar insurance payout: take the case.
Probably they also consider the amount of work. For all we know, both of the above could be just 10-20 hours of work.
Former Australian Deputy Premier won a case against Google in 2022 arguing that the YouTube platform enabled journalist FriendlyJordies to make fun of him, and he won a $715,000 settlement.
Edit: Thanks for the correction, guys
Also, not a former Australian prime minister. He was the deputy premier of New South Wales.
I’m still learning Australian political terminology, you are right, I had prime minister and deputy premier confused.
FYI, the premier is like the state governor and the prime minister is like the president.
YouTube may end up being protected by Safe Harbor laws:
715 thousand. Not millions
Changed it. What’s a zero here or a zero there between politicians though…
True
nailed it
sadly… this case will die in court
Only part I disagree with. It’s a very good thing that this case dies in court. It really does suck for the families, sure, but if these kinds of lawsuits worked it would cause a whole lot more problems than it solves.
Yeah, they should also sue the ISP, the power company, the company who built the criminal’s house and the people who paved the road he used. /s
Oh not wait they are suing ISPs for zeroes and ones that flow through their cables. Strange world we live in. No one would have sued the postal service for a letter they got, or their telco for a call they received before the www.
How is this a “shakedown”?
They literally explained why it was a shakedown. I don’t know what else needs to be said.
The parents of the victims are suing organizations that have no chance of being held liable in the hopes that they get some form of payout. That’s what a shakedown is.
It’s tragic and I get their anger, but this isn’t going to succeed. Any legal team worth its retainer fee will successfully defend this.
There’s no blackmail or extortion of money, it’s a litigation suit on companies to be held liable. That’s not defined as a shakedown.
The term “shakedown” has been used to describe frivolous lawsuits seeking to strong-arm settlements from defendants for decades. Language is descriptive, not prescriptive.
I don’t think that ordinary non-billionaire humans suing Google is strong-arming by any sense of the imagination. Google has the deep pockets and the top legal team. Google could invent lawsuits about whatever the fuck it wanted to and destroy each and every one of these people until the end of time. PR is the only reason they don’t. Not fear of court imposed sanctions—they’re too slick for that.
They blamed books for copy cat killers, movies and video games for shootings now they want to blame websites…
now they are trying to sue people because of hindsight? this isn’t Minority Report. this is ‘lets throw allot of torts and other legal bs on the wall and pray something sticks’
Making legal precedent so that they AVOID showing the offending content instead of PROMOTING the offending content is probably the goal
About 30-40 times a day, Youtube shorts shows me videos actively advocating violence, and I know for sure that Google has enough money and resources currently to prevent these videos being shown, considering it AUTOMATICALLY SUBTITLES THEM
I had to manually report a 100k views short showing someone killing a snail with an air gun. It got removed almost instantly.
Sure, it’s a snail, and sure, it’s an air gun, but exactly this type of videos are breeding grounds for sickos. And no YouTube, the 1mil sub Minecraft channel that said “kill a creep” is not really violent, neither is some who says “fuck” in the first 30 seconds.
Gosh I hate the platform.
What are you searching for that YouTube shorts shows you this?
Dont need to look at a lot, if you remember 2015 youtube suggestions youve got a pretty good idea of how bad the shorts algorithm is. I dont personally use them bur my friend does.
You don’t generally search with YouTube shorts, it presents you with content About 20% is YOUR recommendations (channels you subscribe to) 20% is near-interests (people who do similar content) 20% is whatever is popular at the moment, or whatever a la carte foreign language/low effort content (garena free fire, fortnite) it wants to give you 20% is locational (at home I get anime recommendations due to housemate, at work I get Vegas/Disney vacation or AI garbage) 20% is whatever the algorithm is pushing (channels I have BLOCKED but still appear, tiktok exiles, cooking videos)
I’m guessing you’re algorithms from search results generate that content cuz I never see this kind of stuff
I’m a lefty tree hugger who subscribes to frugal living and DIY home maintenance channels… I get right wing Jordan Peterson/ Joe Rogan bullshit in my feed every time I log on.
I actively click not interested…it still comes. I clear my browser history often, it still comes.
You should pause your watch history altogether if you’re getting this kinda shit. Youtube has stopped recommend anything to people altogether who have completely paused their watch history.
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Your “lefty” content prompts the algorithm to show you opposing content, which is literally what people are clamoring for, because odds are high that you will engage with it, and engagement is the only thing it looks for.
If you only liked Trump shit it’d show you a minority of left-leaning content as well.
I have been telling youtube im not interested in Joe Rogan for years. It still gives me joe rogan youtube shorts
Doesn’t help that everyone and their mother has a channel that only shows Joe Rogan clips. I don’t even like this shit YouTube, why can I recognize it from the fucking microphone.
You probably has some Joe Rogan video in your watch history.
Even hovering over those shorts can get them added on there for some dumb reason.
Go purge your history and see how much it improves.
hmm, I have watch history off. Is that why it keeps suggesting him so much? Im getting the ‘defaults’?
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did I say you were a liar? Christ… I don’t get this shit in my feed, that’s my reality
It’s not a conspiracy theory to assume and algorithm takes what you watch and are interested in into account. That’s what it does.
It is a conspiracy theory, and an easily disproven one, to suggest the algorithm forces this content on you.
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Much as I dislike Reddit, I dont think they are to blame here
Reddit worked very hard to protect all anti-nazi imagery and stop people from posting anti-nazi sentiment. I’d like for someone to acknowledge that they silence anyone who posts anti-nazi shit and who speaks about killing Nazis.
Many are here because of that.
Got banned for posting anti-nazi memes comparing 45 and his supporters to Hitlet and his. It gets scary drawing parallels between the beer hall putsch and jan. 6…
Nothing like a drunk angry mob when you stage failed coups!
They kept the_donald around for years after they helped organize a nazi rally.
It could be the killing part not the nazi part that they silenced you.
As if killing people is some ultimate evil? WW2 literally happened with the purpose of stopping the Nazis, and the only way was killing them due to their ideology requiring force.
People die every day for no reason, some suffer their entire lives’, some people die due to indirect/direct consequences of greed by corporations. The US has killed millions through geopolitical interference. Yet killing somebody who would have ‘unideal races’ genocided is too far? Sure. As if liberals aren’t ok with killing people as long as they agree with the perpetrator.
Fucking ridiculous. If people feel so strongly to publicly announce wanting to kill you, they are either insane, or you are fucked up. And in this case, I think we know the answer.
That’s their claim, but it’s not like I’m advocating killing a person or anything of value. I’m advocating to kill a Nazi. That’s just being an American Citizen.
They also censor content that is just outspoken again nazism and linking the current fascism in the american right to the fascists in history. Meanwhile on /r/conservative fake news and conspiracy theories about the election, the raid on Mar a Lago, racist conspiracies around BLM and violence from cops, and every other topic of republicans and democrats is a okay for reddit
Reddit is seriously dogshit. Shitty admins, shitty users and shitty investor interests ruined the site completely. The platform will never turn back. It’s gone fully into the hive-mind/censorship direction, likely because it keeps people on the site and maximises revenue.
TD literally was a breeding ground for incel hardcore altright racists and nothing was done about it.
What’s TD?
The donald. The breeding ground for the disgusting republicans we have now.
It was more like a localized colony or infestation. The NRA, the Church, and FOX are the mother hives. You’ve got to get the nest, otherwise you’ll be running around stomping them out everywhere without ever getting rid of them.
Otherwise known as the front page of reddit for the entirety of the 2016 presidential election. Every single post on /r/all was either pro Trump stuff from The_Donald or pro Hilary stuff from /r/Politics. As a non american, it made using Reddit painful, being constantly bombarded with stuff about the election.
Wasn’t it banned? That feels like more than “nothing”
Yes. In 2020. After raiding other subs.
Not because they broke any laws or were racist. Just TOS shit.
If you then claim that reddit did anything to combat the alttight uprising i have a bridge to sell you.I think they tried to allow for almost any uprising on every side. It’s good for business. And what’s good for business is good for their Chinese investors.
they were rathe eager to police any leftist content, even if it was clearly satirical
To be fair, it took waaay too long for anything to be done about it. I feel like they kept it going for so long because it was drawing people to Reddit and improving engagement etc. Even when they did step in, they just quarantined the subreddit.
Reddit has edited content, that IMO opens them up this. Once they start removing legal but undesirable content they are tacitly approving the content they haven’t removed.
🤔 so if gun violence is a problem… and they’ve already banned violence… what if one would ban the other thing - oh wait no it’s definitely the goofy gamer machinimas 🤭 stop giggling y’all, this is serious. you don’t wanna turn into criminals
Are you suggesting “banning guns”? If so, genuine curiosity, how would you go about doing it?
I guess a good start would be document gun holders digitally and not on a pile of paper where nobody finds anything and has water damage. Another approach would be not having guns sold in the supermarket. Furthermore, you could ban ads for guns and make it very hard to buy heavy stuff used only in war zone. And lastly restrict who and how weapons are allowed to be transported on man. Of course, one has to have a valid reason to have a weapon on them. Going shopping with a gun out of fear is mot a reason.
First we have to stop bringing new weapons to people, than we can think about collecting
I’m Swiss, we have nearly as many private weapons per household as Americans have, but we have way less shootings, all the things above apply here and I think it kinda works.
TIL they show ads for guns. What exactly do they advertise?
Well that is one thing I’m not 100% sure, but NRA 100% does political pro gun ads on TV (and most likely precisely targeted in social media) I just assumed there are normal gun ads since, well, it’s America.
https://youtu.be/ks2_wY7f-MM?si=SWzCvmHLKdys7jFt
Just skipped through that and it seems most tv networks refuse gun ads, but it seems not illegal by law to show gun ads on tv.
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It seems like New York goes in the right direction then, nice to see! I bet one sees the difference in the statistics for gun violence compared to other states of America. Umm, is NY a state or a city or both? 😂 not so sure right now
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If you order by “Murder Rate (per 100,000) (2019)”
Do the states with less murders per 100,000 than New York have more strict gun rules? (In case you happen to know that)
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The same way we banned private ownership of nuclear missiles.
Yeah that was crazy when they had to go around and confiscate all those nuclear missiles from millions of American households.
God, please don’t give the GOP any ideas, the last thing we need is nuclear proliferation among Trumpers.
Could ask Australia
I would copy-paste what already worked in Australia, which used to have similar gun rights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0aGGOK4kAM
Stop blaming websites for crazy people doing crazy things.
When the Joker movie came out in 2019, everyone on CNN was saying it was going to cause mass shootings, because of that one lunatic that shot up a movie theater during a screening of “the dark knight”
The idiots who write the material for the talking heads just want to stir things up so they can get eyeballs on the screen.
I bet the outlets that were giving live coverage of the shooting showed ads every 5 minutes…like they did with that one really bad shooting.
If the suggestion algorithms helped radicalize the attacker, by feeding him moreand more racist content, then that is entirely different from a mass shooting scene in a movie.
Racist content doesn’t fly on youtube…unless it’s put out there by corporate outlets.
That… isn’t true at all.
Unless they’re just blatantly saying slurs, which they almost never do, the dog whistles never get caught by the moderation bots.
And your point is…?
I made my point in my original comment.
Crazy people are just crazy
They should be suing the Conservative Party. That’s the enabler of gun violence.
This lawsuite is ridiculous. You should hold the shooter liable for there actions. Not reddit, the gun shop or anyone else.
You can however, blame the policies that helped turn the shooter into what he is.
Like an actual common sense gun law that doesn’t sell guns to mentally ill people.
If the gun shop knew he was I’ll they wouldn’t of sold him the gun
Is that how you tell if someone is mentally ill? Just sell them a gun and see if they take it?
Oh, god, please, yes!!! Turn all gun shops into honey pots—folks can really run with this idea.
Yeah, we need to implement some kind of system that stores mentally ill people! And then make gun shops call them before every sale!
You don’t that’s why its silly they are liable
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How’s that been working out?
Not well with silly lawsuites like these.
This is so so stupid. We should also sue the ISPs then, they enabled the use of YouTube and Reddit. And the phone provider for enabling communications. This is such a dangerous slippery slope to put any blame on the platforms.
I think the thing isn’t just providing access to the content, but using algorithms to promote how likely it is for deranged people to view more and more content that fuel their motives for hateful acts instead of trying to reduce how often that content is seen, all because they make more money if they watch more content, wether it is harmful or not.
Yeah, the difference is in whether or not the company is choosing what to put in front of a viewer’s eyes.
For the most part an ISP just shows people what they request. If someone gets bomb making directions from YouTube it would be insane to sue AT&T because AT&T delivered the appropriate packets when someone went to YouTube.
On the other end of the spectrum is something like Fox News. They hire every host, give them timeslots, have the opportunity to vet guests, accept advertising money to run against their content, and so on.
Section 512 of the DMCA treats “online service providers” like YouTube and Reddit as if they’re just ISPs, merely hosting content that is generated by users. OTOH, YouTube and Reddit use ML systems to decide what the users are shown. In the case of YouTube, the push to suggest content to users is pretty strong. You could argue they’re much closer to the Fox News side of things than to the ISP side these days. There’s no human making the decisions on what content should be shown, but does that matter?
Yep. I often fall asleep to long YouTube videos that are science or history related. The algorithm is the reason why I wake up at 3am to Joe Rogan. It’s like a terrible autocomplete.
The algorithm is tailored to you. This says more about you. I never get recommended Rogan.
What if it isn’t algorithms but upvotes? What if Lemmy is next?
If you were head of a psychiatric ward and had an employee you knew was telling patients “Boy, I sure wish someone would kill as many black people as they could”, you would absolutely share responsibility when on of them did exactly that.
If you were deliberately pairing that employee with patients who had shown violent behaviour on the basis of “they both seem to like violence”, you would absolutely share responsibility for that violence.
This isn’t a matter of “there’s just so much content, however can we check it all?”.
Reddit has hosted multiple extremist and dangerous communities, claiming “we’re just the platform!” while handing over the very predictable post histories of mass shooters week after week.
YouTube has built an algorithm and monetisation system that is deliberately designed to lure people down rabbit holes then done nothing to stop it luring people towards domestic terrorism.
It’s a lawsuit against companies worth billions. They’re not being executed. There are grounds to accuse them of knowingly profiting from the grooming of terrorists and if they want to prove that’s not the case, they can do it in court.
Do ISPs actively encourage you to watch extremist content? Do they push that content toward people who are at risk of radicalization to get extra money?
the isps don’t encourage people to see content that makes them mad
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I think to blame/sue the company that is nearest to the user should work fine. (following is hyperbolical) If you don’t do it that way, then yes it would be slippery because the big bang would need to be sued. But that makes no sense.
So if an attack is planned via mail you think we should sue the postal service? The phone company if it’s done over the phone?
No, because these things should be private. Social media however needs some kind of moderation. edit: also go blame the user too, but that should be a given
I think just the poster should suffice, we should leave the platforms out of it. If anything, it helps to out the assholes who would post stuff that enables this.
Blocking a user and removing content from a platform should be relatively easy and fast which should prevent organized crimes. Sueing someone afterwords takes way more resources and time.
But a platform can remove content without getting sued. Why sue them too? Because if you don’t sue their asses they don’t care.
Of course moderation takes time and can’t be perfect and this should be considered when suing the platform owners. And yes this could help the assholes, but I think you can report such behavior to the fbi or someone.
If my buddies and spend a month plotting a crimer in my cousin’s spare room, the cousin would be complicit since he knowingly allowed us to use his property for a criminal conspiracy. The USPS doesn’t know what i am sending in the mail since they are a common carrier.
Great analogy
Actually, they’d just try to seize his house, since proving his complicity is more challenging than proving that the house was used for the planning of a crime.
Is the postal service intentionally increasing mail to people interested in attacks by people messaging that attacks are necessary? If the postal service is doing that to increase the total postal volume, then yes, we should.
Change mail (private) to moderated public notice board (not private). The owner of the public notice board should probably be sued for allowing the content to stay up.
Everyone was responsible except the shooter. Welcome to Lawyer World.
Liability is nuanced, ya doughnut.
It’s almost like the world exists outside of a third grade understanding man woman toaster TV.
And there is no liability here, ya bagel
There is tho.
Shootings do not happen in a vacuum. They happen due to external factors such as political or religious radicalization or “just” bullying. This does not absolve the shooter of the responsibility of course since the response to, let’s say, the Great Replacement Theory lies in the hands of the shooter. The shooter could have not shot non-white people.
But then we have the people spreading the Great Replacement Theory. The people that tell their audience day in and day out that if they are not careful, there may be no whites anymore. If you keep hearing this or other racist shit day in and day out for many many many years and do not trust another source of information because the same people tell you that the other media is corrupt… You’re bound to turn “crazy” one way or another.
There’s probably even more nuance but my point is: We really shouldn’t let the people turning responsible gun owners into shooters through propaganda just get away with it, should we?
Especially in the right wing where this is a known tactic. They radicalize people and if something goes awry, they just disavow it. The right wing pundits disavowed the Jan 6 rioters they themselves “inspired” to fight for democracy. They disavowed the Club Q shooter they themselves “warned” about trans people.
It’s obviously not the shooter’s fault. The gun is 100% responsible.
Or, I don’t know, ban guns.
As a European, it’s amazing to see how many (probably) US citizens cling to their guns and downvote every single comment suggesting it might make sense to ban them. Like, dude, what do you need a glock for? Like seriously?
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
Sure the parents who are truly to blame for not raising their child properly
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