• BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    The question has always been what does one do when the renewables aren’t providing enough power (ex: nights, etc). The current solution is natural gas. It would be a big improvement if we would use a carbon-free source like nuclear instead.

    • 0xD21F@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Pumped-storage hydroelectricity is an old and proven method for load balancing intermittent power sources. Would like to see more of that as geography permits.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Actually it isn’t if you stop only looking at places that are also suitable as power plant, that is, have a big river flowing through them.

          You can do pumped hydro in an old mineshaft.

    • relative_iterator@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      consumers may also help reduce system costs by adapting their electricity consumption to the availability of renewable energy

      From the linked paper. They mention some other options for storage like batteries (plenty of environmental issues there though) but based on the quoted text I have a hard time taking this seriously if they actually expect people to change their behavior.

      • Zorque@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        “Not enough power from renewables? Just turn off your fridge for a few days and you’ll be fine!”

        Honestly that sentiment has strong “blame the consumer” vibes that seems to pervade climate arguments.

        Sure, people can reduce consumption, but at best its a stopgap, not a solution.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          There’s stuff like heaters and to a degree things like washing machines that can shape the time they’re active to whenever there’s a lull.

          Consider Britain: Each time the BBC runs a popular show you get an energy usage spike once it’s over because people are getting up and make themselves a cuppa. Doesn’t really make sense to run the heater in the tank for your shower at the same time, or charge your car, that can wait a bit.

      • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I think innovation at the consumption end is going to help a lot. On Technology Connections I saw an electric induction stove that could be powered from a regular socket. It had a battery that would trickle charge throughout the day and then use the batteries to power the induction cooktops, as well as a couple of plugs. If widely deployed and in other appliances, with a little smarts that could provide power leveling at the home level.

        Another solution would be adding some intelligence to water heaters. Have a temperature control valve on the output where you set the temperature, and program the water heater get to 160-180°F when electricity is cheap. This would be a thermal battery that would easily level out demand for electricity for heating water.

        Or you could do thermal storage by heating a house very warm/cold prior to a large cold snap/heat wave, and letting it coast down/up to a temperature instead of heating/cooling a lot during the cold/hot weather. He’s got a video on this technique here

    • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      The growing idea is to just have a shit load of renewables, everywhere. The wind is always blowing somewhere, and the sun shines through the clouds. If you have a ridiculous excess total capacity then even when you’re running at limited capacity you could still cover the demand. Basically, most of our renewable infrastructure would actually be curtailed or offline a lot of the time.

    • IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Nuclear is a terrible fit for peaker plants, that’s not how it works. If it isn’t selling energy at as close to 100% of the time as is feasible it’s losing money.

    • roguetrick@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Nuclear is not, and cannot be, a gap coverage solution. Due to xenon/iodine poisoning and decay heat management you need to keep a reactor critical as long as possible to be economical. That’s independent of the problem of keeping the water hot that fossil fuel generators share. You can’t just turn a reactor on and off.

      • WalrusDragonOnABike@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        It can provide a baseload though where solar can provide extra power during the heat for places where the summer and days are the power intensive part, rather than winter and nights. You still need a short-term stop gap as the sun sets but it’s still hot out, but even if that was just powered by NG it would be a huge step forward. Adding greener energy storage options to store extra power nuclear or wind could generate overnight would be better.

        Btw, could a small percent of nuclear reactors be turned on/off seasonally, potentially transporting fuel between the north in the winter and the south in the summer?

        • roguetrick@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Yes, but if you spend the money making a reactor, you really should just use it. Uranium is pretty cheap, it’s the reactor that’s expensive.

      • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Keep the reactors running to avoid that issue. As long as they are providing enough power when the renewables aren’t, we successfully cut out natural gas from the power grid.

    • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      We have to start looking at personal renewables more? Each home could have their own small windmill or solar panel. Let’s point in that direction.

      • Zorque@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        What makes you think personal renewable are going to be more efficient than large scale renewables? The sun doesn’t magically shine in the middle of the night on personal homes, the wind doesn’t magically blow only in residential areas…

    • alvvayson@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The renewables-only crowd is just ignorant about this simple fact.

      The future of energy will be dominated by solar and nuclear power. With hydro, geothermal and wind playing supporting roles, depending on geography.

      The only question is, how much fossil fuels do we burn until then?

      Those who oppose nuclear are really just in favour of burning fossil fuels in the interim. But the inevitable switch to nuclear will come as fossil fuels are depleted.

      Nature has given us the atom as the most dense and durable way to store energy. That will never change.