Make sense?

Yes, it does, very much so. Thanks a lot!

It is good to hear. For what it’s worth, I just went through a bit of an exercise for Cuba trying to look for examples of the types of violence that they committed and also looked into some of the other groups that I associate with the concept of a “violent revolution” (ETA in Spain, IRA in Ireland, different groups in Yugoslavia). What I found is:

• The groups that I associate with terrorism tactics are nationalistic, not fighting for socialism (at least not as a main goal).

• The Cuban revolutionaries used guerrilla tactics that, from what I can find, did not use terrorism as a tool. Their enemies, including CIA-backed groups, did.

So, that’s points in favor to Cuba.

When people say “kill the landlords” online, they are usually expressing frustration at the parasitic nature of landlordism, they are not announcing that they intend to kill grandma.

Good to know! Before the 2016 US election I would rarely choose the literal interpretation when reading statements like this online. When Trump was elected and I realized that people online were not actually being sarcastic and making jokes, I began to take online statements more seriously and literally. I still think there is a high probability that some people who write about violence online mean it literally. That doesn’t necessarily reflect on Marxist-Leninists though, many ideologies/religions can be pushed to extremism, and it is not entirely fair to ask everyone not to use figurative language online.

I am half way through Wage Labor and Capital now. It is very interesting, I think that I will like Marx’s Das Kaptial because I do like dense/analytical. I already have several questions but I will first read more and then see if I can get some help in the communities you mentioned.

Thanks! I had the chance to read a bit.

So far… Engels Principles of Communism says some sensible things to do if the government is trusted (for example, the concept of abolishing private property, inheritance taxes, etc…), but it is also makes some point that I find concerning. Specifically, the combination of the answers provided to “Q16: Will it be possible to bring about the abolition of private property by peaceful means?” and “Q24: How do communists differ from socialists?” concern me because Q16 suggests violence as a method and Q24 significantly broadens the scope of who is an enemy of the revolution, while still keeping it ambiguous. A call for violent revolution + ambiguity of who is the enemy is a dangerous recipe because it leaves a lot of room for “interpretation” and “nuance” that will probably lead to disagreement between violent factions.

I think of this mixture of call for violence + an ambiguous enemy in the context of what I see sometimes being posted to social media, including Lemmy. I have seen calls for violence against “owners” that often extends to small business owners and landlords, usually without distinguishing between a commercial entity as a ‘landlord’ and a grandma renting out a room. Sometimes I think this is just a figure of speech but sometimes I doubt and consider that these might be actual calls to action. So, then, when I see such a broad brush being used to paint the ‘enemy’ I get the impression that pretty much anyone benefiting in some way from these systems is an enemy if they do not immediately understand and fully embrace the revolution. A revolution, then, seems to ask the revolutionary to be violent against friends and families if living in a developed country. I find it difficult to imagine that a majority within a population would want to go through this process if they fully understand the implication. When a Engles writes about “the majority of the people”, does this count every individual in the population, or only those who are friendly to the revolution?

As I continue I am curios of whether I will find find some robust method to distinguish between the ‘proletariat’ and the ‘petty-bourgeois’, and to find out whether I will keep my head during the revolution. It would be nice to find some ideas on how to achieve the goals without violence. I have also seen that many more modern philosophies are built on top of Marxism-Leninism (like Degrowth), so in any case I am certain I will get a lot of value out of this topic.

I also found that you are running a book club on Das Kapital, I will try to catch up.

Do you know of a community where I can ask questions about this topic?

The book arrived :D Exciting!

I do want to try the single-spore isolation technique at some point.

Again, thank you very much for taking the time to respond in such depth. As I read what you write I think of more questions, but I think it is unfair that I continue asking when you have given me already a lot of explanation and study material. My questions will most likely be addressed in the material.

On my way home now I was thinking about what would be a good way to approach this study. At first I thought of picking Venezuela because it is a bit close but not too close to me. But from what you mention it seems like it might be a difficult one to start with. I have decided I will focus on Cuba first (well, once I am done with the pre-req theoretical background). I even made a small plan to follow, I’ll try to visit Havana within the next few years.

Again, thank you!

Cuba in particular is under intense embargo, as I’m sure you know.

Yes, for Cuba’s situation I put most of the blame for the US. I see a lot of anti-Cuba propaganda that is ridiculous. Virtually most UN members have agreed for a long time that the US should drop the cruel embargo, I don’t see it as a controversial take that the US is the aggressor here and is to blame in many many other cases. Don’t get me wrong on that, I won’t deny the imperialist reality.

As far as the concept of a ‘socialist revolution’ goes, this stage makes sense to me! It is in understanding the actions that leaders take after the revolution is where I become skeptical. It is difficult for me to distinguish between a genuine attempt at socialism and someone using the compelling ideas of socialism as a tool to justify actions that concentrate power to their benefit. An enemy is a useful tool to consolidate power. Imperial systems built on capitalist system can provide this enemy, the question is whether the concept of this enemy is being used as a useful tool or if a serious attempt is being made to defeat it. Is there a winning stage were the leader would say “Fantastic, we did it guys! I will step away now”, or is there no end-point planned?

My father’s side of the family is originally from Yugoslavia/Slovenia, and they do speak well about Slovenia under Tito. And, when I look into Tito, it does look like his government is regarded in an overwhelmingly positive light. Their system at least on the surface looks to me like an example of a socialist(?) system that can co-exist with a largely capitalist world. My knowledge on the actual details/history of this comes from a few very focused YouTube videos and wiki pages so maybe he is not considered a good example of a socialist leader by socialists. I do see a contrast here in that this is a leader that is painted generally in a positive light, but I am not sure if this is because he was friendly to the west, or my experience is biased because I mostly hear about him from Slovenians and YouTube. The specific example of Slovenia gives me some hope that a kind of intermediate system that co-exists with capitalism can be used to peacefully transition, and from what I understand they did achieve a system that distributed ownership and the power to make decisions among workers more than to the state. Although things did not end so well for Yugoslavia, so maybe a system like this one would be quenched.

Great, lots to study! I will make an effort, really. Thank you!

To add some context… I am originally from the south of Mexico. The view of ‘Imperialism of the Global North’ is a common understanding there. The evidence of this is quite explicit. There is also a lot of classism that is routinely used to harmonize religious ideology with the unjust reality of inequality. Perhaps a reason why the theory of socialism resonates with me is because it successfully explains the dynamics that give rise to the systems that support the inequality that I grew up around.

After going through some of the background theory this is where I will want to focus my attention:

Socialist Revolution occurs first in the Global South. That’s why a lot of rapid industrialization and millitarization to protect from outside threats has solidified in every surviving Socialist state.

My distrust of the government in Mexico and South America is very high - regardless of political ideology. It may be simplistic but in this moment I think that a lot of the powerful people ruling these countries are primarily driven by self-interest, are corrupt, often use populist rhetoric including vague anti-imperialist and anti-corruption messages, and do not have a concrete specific plan. I know that human liberties in Venezuela and Cuba are severely restricted in face of awful material conditions because I have met several people who escaped and who have been there. I have not visited either myself, but family and friends have. So this would be a good topic for me to study. I promise you that despite coming in with my preconceived notions I approach this with an open but still always skeptical mind.

To pick a specific example that I am curious about… Is Venezuela’s government today seen in a positive light by socialists in general? If so, do you know of any good reading I could do to understand why this is the case? Why would I trust that Nicolás Maduro wants what is best for the Venezuelan people? Was he democratically elected? If not, does it matter?

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out such a thorough reply! I have ordered a copy of Blackshirts and Reds (I really prefer reading printed books) and have begun checking out the links.

Capitalism is a very natural point to reach, but also has its own quantitative shifts that lead to Socialism overtaking it.

My not-very-developed perspective is: When I think of capitalism as a ‘metastable’, I think that this meta-stability is achieved by allocating some resources to keep the masses just comfortable enough to remain somewhat pacific and complacent. It is not essential to achieve this globally, but it is somewhat important locally. So those who have accumulated more can simply apply the more violent and extractive practices abroad while things locally are OK.

The thing is… The pathway to leaving a meta-stable state involves first hopping out of that stability. In practical terms this means shaking things up and pissing off those who are interested in maintaining the status quo and who have the means to cause a significant amount of pain. If successful, for example, by means of a violent revolution, there is no guarantee of landing in a better spot. Furthermore, a violent revolution can potentially distribute power unevenly to those willing to exercise violence.

I don’t think it is so much “Capitalism is great!” as much as “We are currently stuck in this system, it doesn’t work but at least I am one of the lucky ones, and so far there doesn’t seem to be a good plan to get out of this mess”. This is being complacent, and it is not ideal. But it is difficult to figure out how to not be complacent in a meaningful way without self-sabotage. I can see how to take specific actions to try to make the world around me a little better, but these are things that don’t shake up the system.

That can be why you find yourself seeing controversial claims, a large part of defending Socialism is defending it from the unjustifed attacks those opposed usually jump to, rather than the more useful critique of Socialism as it truly exists. You’ll find that the best critique of Socialism in the real world comes from Socialists, and we Marxists are not afraid of genuine critique. Rather, Marx himself advocated for the “ruthless critique of all that exists.”

That makes sense. The type of criticism that I commonly see is that many of the historical examples of “socialism” are characterized by a leader imposing their will on a population, suppressing the media, and a leader and family living with luxury despite the population suffering. I don’t know how much of it is accurate and how much is propaganda. But I know reality is nuanced and there is probably a mix of truth and fiction in there. When I see a strong bias in either direction I am suspicious.

Regardless of what is true and what isn’t: when someone glorifies a leader, it is not clear to me if the person believes a different historical narrative than the common/western one (for example, the counter-narrative might be: ‘That was a complete fabrication! People were free to leave and there is no evidence of suppression of the press’), or if they accept the common historical narrative but believe the actions are justified (something more along the lines of: ‘yes, X did force the population to stay within the borders to protect the state and killed those lying propagandist journalists, all of this was justified.’). This is what I wish I knew more about. My knowledge of these people is superficial. I don’t know neither the commonly accepted narratives nor the alternate narratives (if they exist), I just see that people have very different opinions about Castro, Maduro, Stalin, Mao, Xi Jin Ping, Putin, and even Kim Jong Un.

You have already helped me a lot and given me many things to look at. If I make the effort to go through some of the material you already provided I will probably find many of the answers. Thanks!

I have read some books that maybe cover some of these topics tangentially, but I have not studied the source material. I do want to, so thank you providing a list of resources to check out!

When I go through Lemmy and see discussions on theory, my views tend to align quite strongly with those of socialism. I do see there are a lot of controversial takes when it comes to historical figures, but if I am being honest those discussions are well outside my depth. I wish I knew more about history so that I could get more value out of that. So, if you know of any interesting history books, I am interested.

And thanks for the feedback! I figured that aligning an instance with my own personal interests would make more sense as I can make more valuable contributions and I find the content interesting.

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks.

When I think of the statement “capitalism is human nature”, my interpretation is more along the lines of:

If you create human society and let it evolve in an un-constrained manner, there is a large probability that you will at some point pass through a period of capitalism.

This is not about it being “optimal for society” but is rather a meta-stable state that is easy to arrive at given a simple set of rules and initial conditions. “Human nature” refers to those rules and initial conditions. It doesn’t mean that it is a good thing, it is not unavoidable, and it is not likely to represent a global optimum or the final point in human society’s evolution.

I’m not saying that I think that this is the general interpretation. It is just how I interpret it.

That’s a good idea, I will give it a try. I also want to learn more about how to apply dyes to see the different structures.

I have been looking for good books on fungi and lichen. I have ordered that book, should arrive this week! Thank you for the recommendation

Absolutely stunning!

Thanks! Today I collected a tiny piece of the lichen and set up a new experiment to grow the algae!

The lichen organism consists of a combination of different species combining into one — a form of symbiosis. Generally, the lichen consists of at least one species of fungus, known as the mycobiont, and at least one photosynthetic alga or a cyanobacterium as a symbiotic partner, known as the photobiont. It is possible to have more complicated mixtures, not necessarily only two.

The fungus grows on a surface and then undergoes a process of lichenization. In this process, it can capture its companion from the environment (it may arrive via arthropod activity, such as through saliva or feces), and then produces structures within which they reside, as shown in the diagram below.

Source: New Phytologist

This relationship is beneficial to both organisms because the lichen can “mine” nutrients like phosphorus and also provide protection, while the photobiont can make use of light to produce sugars for the fungus.

It is difficult to cultivate these by picking one from the wild (except perhaps if you bring the lichen along with the surface it lives on), because this state of symbiosis is strongly adapted to the surface the lichen grows on and it has gone through a developmental history that is not easy to replicate from a small fragment.

One way to grow a few specific species of lichen is through a process of re-synthesis. This process consists of first growing the fungus and the algae separately, and then re-combining them to create the lichen.

Source: BMC Genomics

I still have not gotten to the point… but I have read about it and I think I now know how to do it. I need to make an agar plate like the ones I showed in the post that contains nutrients, but then place a thin regenerated cellulose or cellophane membrane on top of it that allows nutrients to flow slowly, but that the fungus is unable to penetrate, forcing it to only grow in a plane. After it has grown for a couple of days, the algae can be added in a specific ratio for the fungus to capture and become a lichen.

Hope this explanation helps clarify!

Here is also a very nice video on lichens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GOgiJlHkcY

Awesome, thanks! I will look into it.

Ahh thanks! Great to go back to those days. Really miss recording that show.

The end of what? When I go to that video on Youtube I enter a continuous ‘live stream’ with no end.

You are welcome! Wanted to do this for some time and writing about it is a way to force myself to think about what I see more carefully.

That is very cool! I did not know they were producing in Switzerland. I would like to visit. Do you know if they routinely open to the public?

I wonder if the “magic sauce” is a polyimide. Those polymers are often used as the dielectric layer to make capacitors that are humidity-sensitive. These polymers have sites into which water molecules can reversibly dock such that the occupancy at equilibrium is proportional to the % relative humidity.

That is true. To me, the sensor data in itself is of value because I am interested in learning about, for example, whether the CO2 emission changes while the fruiting happens. But it is definitely not necessary for achieving good results. I see it more like a hobby on top of a hobby. Hobby stacking!

Are the mods just going to sit there and do nothing while jared doxes me?!?!?!

That ‘every episode compilation’ is great! Skipped through it trying to find my appearance (no success yet) and found many skits I have never seen before.

No need to be approved! Please, 100%, would love a Lichens community!