The headline has been altered by independent.
Here’s a link to an archived version
Can we stop acting like Israel is fucking normal? This shit doesn’t even happen in the US.
“This shit doesn’t even happen in the US”
Ok, Trump aside, do you remember the US response to the 9-11 attacks?
Israel is bang out of order, but it doesn’t help that the groundwork for dealing with “terrorists” on a global scale was laid by the US.
Remember renaming French fries to “Freedom Fries” because the French dared to oppose the invasion of Iraq, a country that had very little to do with the terrorist act?
Dutch guy here. We had our own 9/11 event when Russians shot MH17 out of the air which contained 200 Dutch people. You know what we did? We prosecuted those responsible (in absentia) and they will be arrested once they enter Dutch soil. No kids were harmed in the process (apart from those on the plane). Israel’s response of collective punishment is bad shit crazy!
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I dunno - mounting evidence seems to point to the hypothesis a few less imperialists wouldn’t hurt.
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We prosecuted those responsible (in absentia) and they will be arrested once they enter Dutch soil.
Sounds like you did absolutely nothing
First, do no harm? What benefit did the US enjoy from attacking Afghanistan?
In EU, we know the cost of any wars and the fact creating a new circle of violence doesn’t resolve anything.
We don’t have one village without a monument commemorating the dead people from the past wars. Everybody have at least a family member who fight or died because of a war… Just go one or two generations in the past (in my case my grandmother lost 2 sisters in WW2, my grandfather was captured and sent in acamp for 2 years and managed to escape and walk back to south of France. My other grandfather family moved to France because of Franco repression in Spain, another cycle of violence…)
All my ancestors have fought for the land i’m currently on during thousand of years… We have thousand of years of war history behind us… against germany, against the UK, against the whole EU at some point “thanks” to Napoleon, and i could go to the medieval time, or even before when we fighted against Rome… And you know what? I work everyday with Germans, British, Italian people… I didn’t kill them because they are not responsible of their leaders actions and country history…
You prosecute the responsibles of an attack (in the worse case you sent a little squad to assassinate the leaders if they hide and plan to harm you again) BUT you don’t murder all the civilians around to achieve this result. This is madness and incompetence. And that create a new cycle of violence that your children will have to pay at some point…
This is madness and incompetence.
Amen. War is a total systemic failure.
You would think that someone would look at the last 20 years of war on terror and conclude that maybe you shouldn’t handle it the way the US did.
Or look at it and realize you can get away with it, even if it’s a sloppy war because the citizens don’t care if they lose as long as the other side still dies
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were never particularly popular (especially when they dragged on for years). It’s just that the political class doesn’t care about what the people want.
Look at why it was unpopular. Everyone agreed it was bad for troops. Most believed it was a mistake to go at all, but a sizable portion believed it was the tactic that was wrong, that the war should have started and ended on the same day with nukes.
Yeah you could argue that what Israel is doing is much smaller in terms of body count. Iraq and Afghanistan cost million lives+ and many more ruined. Israel is only at 30-40k so far.
But the quality bluntness of propaganda and cruelty of warfare is definitely different. The palestinian people have been imprisoned on a tiny strip of land and have nowhere to go.
I’ve been wondering why nobody has brought this clear comparison up before. The progressive left knows this will only antagonize the right wing. Since the objective is to save innocent civilian lives and get a ceasefire and not to score political points, they don’t draw the parallel.
And the liberals and right wing are excusing Israels behavior because subconsciously they know they did the same thing. So if Israel is guilty, so is the US.
The only one getting political points from the comparison is Russia to keep the atrocity by Israel going, damage the Reputation of the US and distract from their own war. Well or Israel possibly. Not accusing you at all, just musing from an “information warfare” perspective.
I think this is a fair point.
“Very little”?
It happens everywhere, with increasing frequency. Depending on who’s calling for killing who, it’s either praised or giggled at or condemned. Off the top of my head…
Snoop Dogg had a mock execution of Trump, where he shot a Trump caricature clown in the head
In South Africa, there are prominent groups dancing around & chanting, “Kill the Boer! The farmer! SHOOT to KILL!! Brrrrrrrap!” But this has been justified because it’s “an old cultural chant”, totally not a threat. Malema has been called out for this, and he has reassured everyone, “We Have Not Called For The Killing Of White People… At Least For Now” But he “cannot ‘guarantee’ what will happen in the future”.
These aren’t really apt comparisons. None of the them are calling for the military to go and kill a citizen of another country.
Toby Keith : Courtesy of the Red White and Blue - https://youtu.be/ruNrdmjcNTc?si=DmXKSLPI2SHVoQM-
There’s plenty more. Or are you just being obtuse on purpose?
Who is he calling for the marines to kill? I don’t see it in the lyrics at all. Sure, it talks about war (it’s essentially a hardcore version of the Star Spangled Banner, which talks about bombing). And the song was never as big as the song in the article. Additionally, this was over 20 years ago, which is a lot of time to change. That’s like saying that people can’t be upset at other countries for discriminating against LGBTQ+ people because American TV in the early 2000’s had jokes at their expense. Things change.
He’s calling for the killing of Iraqis, you know people in Iraq. You know, those innocent civilians the American government lied about having weapons of mass destruction. Then Toby Keith’s dream came true and the US set about levelling their land and killing millions of Iraqis.
Why the fuck does 20 years matter? Your statement did not mention a timeline. Show some integrity.
I don’t even understand what your point is. Are you okay with the song in the article because there’s some pretty batshit insane country songs? What the fuck do you mean show some integrity? You came up in here and just said went ‘nuh uh, America bad!’. What’s your point? How does this relate to the advocating of killing singers who are of Arabic decent? Do you have anything so actually say here other than whataboutism?
Like others who have responded I’ve simply pointed out an example that refutes your statement. You don’t seem to be capable of even opening the smallest sliver of your mind to the possibility that anyone else might have a rational different perspective on this matter. It’s tiresome.
Where does he even say that? Or are you one of those people that say “look at what I think was implied”? I looked through the lyrics, where does it call for killing people in Iraq? My statement didn’t mention a timeline because I had no idea idiots like you were going to come in with no point other than country music is bad. You’re not contributing anything to the conversation about the actual post, like any American you’ve made this all about yourself.
Where does he even say that? Or are you one of those people that say “look at what I think was implied”? I looked through the lyrics, where does it call for killing people in Iraq? My statement didn’t mention a timeline because I had no idea idiots like you were going to come in with no point other than country music is bad. You’re not contributing anything to the conversation about the actual post, like any American you’ve made this all about yourself.
What the fuck are you trying to prove? I’ve waisted so much time talking with you fucking dolts that aren’t even talking about this article.
I’m not American. You might want to think about your assumptions and what they do to your ability to process information, particularly feedback.
Ah, The international defence of “bygones”.
20 years is a lot of time for a 20 year old, right?
The bigger picture is that 20 years is still very recent history.
That’s like saying that people can’t be upset at other countries for discriminating against LGBTQ+ people because American TV in the early 2000’s had jokes at their expense
Yeah. It is. The fact the US still has TV shows that make those jokes, the very fact that morality is relative to the US is sort of the problem here. At best it is imperialism. At worst it is rank hypocrisy.
Your anti-America glasses are making you miss the point so fucking hard there’s no point trying to talk to you. But just know, countries other than USA can be bad too. You don’t need to use the USA as a litmus test for if something is right.
Courtesy of the Red White and Blue
How about you read the lyrics and see that for all of the patriotic bluster, they don’t even say a group or nation that of people should be on the receiving end of the requested military force. Just that they should go do the thing somewhere to the people who hit first. You’re comparing that to someone calling out specific people for death.
I hope you can see why your comparison immediately falls apart.
In your own words:-
calling for the military to go and kill a citizen of another country
Are Iraqis in Iraq not citizens of another country?
Have you read the lyrics? Do you struggle with understanding context?
Oh, and justice will be served and the battle will rage This big dog will fight when you rattle his cage And you’ll be sorry that you messed with The U.S. of A. ‘Cause we’ll put a boot in your ass It’s the American way Hey Uncle Sam, put your name at the top of his list And the Statue of Liberty started shakin’ her fist And the eagle will fly it’s gonna be hell When you hear mother freedom start ringin’ her bell And it’ll feel like the whole wide world is raining down on you Oh, brought to you courtesy of the red white and blue
None of it is okay. It encourages violence, it desensitizes us, we see a comedian triumphantly holding up a bloodied, decapitated POTUS head with a look of cold indifference on her face and we say, "Oh, it’s okay. It’s not a call to violence specifically, it’s just artistic expression.
I’m picking Trump ones because he’s a big, easy target & the examples are easily found. Not because I endorse Trump. It also showcases how extreme violence is given a platform, praised. But there are plenty more examples just a Google search away.
So it’s fine for people to depict killing a POTUS all the time, and other people you don’t like. That’s acceptable. Kill the white farmers in South Africa, after all, they’re part of an oppressor class & they deserve it. SHOOT to KILL. But calling for the death of 3 random people is a line too far, I guess? 🤨
Your qualms with this are just the result of a culture with no guardrails, no moral foundation. Human life isn’t considered sacred. We tolerate & celebrate depictions of death all the time. This only encourages senseless mass shootings, violence.
You’re really looking for a straw man argument for this, and I don’t even understand why. The release and reception of this song is vile, there is no need to try and grandstand and go “actually…”
You’re allowed to say something is fucked up without having to mention everything else fucked up and discuss which is more fucked up. You’re wasting energy on the stupidest thing.
we see a comedian triumphantly holding up a bloodied, decapitated POTUS head with a look of cold indifference on her face and we say
You’re dead / You’re canceled!
(That’s my only contribution, noting she received death threats & hatred, carry on otherwise I just remembered that one)
It encourages violence, it desensitizes us,
We can understand why that’s like, not a very concrete justification to be against espousing violence, right? I also find it weird, right, that we’re doing this step-around thing, where you’re calling everyone out for the hypocrisy of, oh, well, people are against this violence, but they’re not against this violence? Have you maybe considered that the two forms of violence are distinct? Perhaps that the two forms of violence are actually not similar? That people have reasons for, say, wanting violence against one party, but not another?
That’s what they’re commenting about. You say “it’s either all okay or none of it’s okay” because it encourages violence, right, but, I am giving you an opportunity to show your work, when it comes to this very basic claim, upon which rests the rest of your argument.
No, they’re just indulging in a little stochastic terrorism. As a treat.
“shot in the head” that’s misrepresentation big time. He shoots a gun towards the clowns head but it’s one of those gag guns with a flag coming out with the word “bang” on it… Which rhymes with Trump being depicted as a clown. It’s far more metaphorical than the other examples and you need to be pretty fucking dense to see it as a call for violence against Trump or anyone else.
The Israeli one and the South African ones are in my opinion comparable in that they both call for explicit violence and their only defense is basically “it’s art, I can do what I want”
Call to violence might be a stretch. However, I think it’s either incredibly naive or incredibly dishonest to overlook the depiction of a gun, pointed at a person, the trigger being pulled, the gun going bang, and the president/clown flinching in response.
You only point a gun at something if you intend to shoot it, possibly kill it. There is no exception.
It is indeed an artistic expression & not real, but the imagery is unmistakable. He casually plays out this scene & displays it to the world, basically saying, “Yeah, if this happened…I’m totally okay with this. I put this in my rap videos. No big deal.”
And I think a lot of people on Lemmy feel the same way about Trump.
You’re right, it’s not a national thing, but it’s not okay. The one with Snoop Dogg is a bit different though, because Trump is also inciting violence, so he made himself a legitimate target for responses like that.
Why do you consider Hamas not inciting violence? And the many Palestinians and pro-palestinian protestors who openly ask to eradicate Israel and Israelis, Jews and so on?
Based GWAR cutting off Bush’s head onstage and spraying us all with blood
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Snoop Dogg had a mock execution of Trump, where he shot a Trump caricature clown in the head
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I wish I could agree, but we’ve got some fucked up shit top the country music charts from time to time.
I don’t think any of the fucked up countries song of the last 5 years get close to this. People forget 9/11 was over 20 years ago, that’s an entire generation worth of change. Disney was racist in the past, doesn’t mean it’s an excuse for others to be racists now.
Jasn Aldean’s “Try That in a Small Town” was released in 2023 and that’s a commercial song. There are plenty of far worse example.
Hmm recall the catchy chorus but lyrics seem generically patriotic on the violent side?
wow OK. And Santis saying “when the média attaxks you, you’re doing something right”…
Or if it does, it usually gets shut down immediately.
That’s what I meant; sure there may have been songs with this stuff in them but they rarely become if ever have become hits. Usually it’s a career killer.
Totally normal and kool.
War on Terror
The US Attorney General John Ashcroft singing his wonderfully jingoistic 2002 masterpiece “Let the Eagle Soar”
Why is it so fucking hard for the U.S. to see Israel for what it is. I mean, as an agnostic I know exactly why, but I still have to ask my country why we can’t call out genocide when we can fucking see it?
It’s like sitting on the sidelines of the holocaust and just saying…well…we have interests in that region, so let’s hold on a minute.
We didn’t get involved in WW2 because of the Holocaust. There were plenty of newspaper articles about it all over the country well before Pearl Harbor, and nothing was done until we were attacked directly.
If there is one thing this whole affair is bringing up in the West is just how extremelly racist even the people who loudly proclaim themselves as “progressives” really are.
You see it when they pull out the anti-semite card to try and bat away criticism of Israel: even if Israel indeed represented all Jews (itself a racist assumption because it presumes “all Jews are the same and think the same”), the etnicity of the people mass murdering civilians because of their etnicity, having any weight on ones judgment of their actions is incredibly racist (of the “different weights for different races” kind).
Personally what I see is people who never stopped being prejudiced racists who judge people on their etnicity rather than their actual actions, only some etnic groups became less fashionable to overly be racist against whilst others did not - the architecture of racism is still well in place and in use, it’s just that for certain etnicities the prejudices changed.
How on earth did you come up with the idea that this is a progressive thing? It’s overwhelmingly conservatives and neoliberals using the “anti-Semitism” charge in defense of genocide.
The overwhelming absence of critique in liberal newspapers can be seen as evidence of self censorship due to “anti-semitism”. But corporatism / imperialism can also explain that. The charge of antisemitism is always hurdled at pro-palestinian (anti-genocide) protesters. Liberal media was also arguing “(a free Palestine) from the river to the sea” is a call to genocide.
Yes, liberal newspapers. Liberals are not progressives.
That sound a lot like the No True Scottsman Falacy.
Every single time I’ve seen politicians in the Anglo-Saxon world harping all about moral liberalism, they’re also the same politicians that are “relaxed about wealth” and don’t really talk much about how it’s wealth discrimination which inflicts the most pain and removes the opportunities for those who are the sons and daughters of those who before were pushed into poverty due to discrimination.
You can’t solve the problems from past discrimination that threw people into the pit by keeping the pit going, the ladders to it up and its walls tall and near unsurmountable - if you’re not talking about social mobility, the social safety net, worker rights and equal access to Justice, Education and Health independently of wealth when you’re talking about discrimination, then you’re just another Neolib trying to pass yourself as a leftie as there’s no progress in that since you’re just keeping the shackles on the descendents of the victims of discrimination (along with a whole lot of other people who just happen to have been born in the less wealty classes).
It’s not. In US politics, liberals will often try to paint themselves as progressives, but the policies they hold and the funding for their campaigns tell a very different story.
The banner carrier for the progressive movement in the US is clearly Bernie Sanders, and he doesn’t pull this shit. Neither does AOC, or the rest of the “squad”. Nobody in progressive media does either.
On the Republican side, it’s even more obvious. Republicans have been the driving force behind the anti-BDS movement. Biden might be splitting hairs in his mixed messaging on Israel, but not the Republicans. Republicans are solidly behind Israel in their genocide of Gaza.
Of all the possible political ideologies you could single out for this in America, “progressives” would be the least accurate.
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Anybody that goes on and on about how people in some groups defined by the genetics they were born with are victims or are aggressors, is using the very same framework of prejudiced treatment as the far right.
Fair treatment is to classify people as victims or aggressors by those people having actually been victims or having victimized others and then help the former and stop and punish the latter. Not only is it wholly irrelevant the etnicity of the people involved (unless the people who victimized others did so due to the etnicity of said others, in which case they should be punished extra hard, IMHO) but it’s also massivelly unfair to paint a wide brush over everybody else who happens to have been born with the same genetics as either because of the actions of just those.
There is no such thing as Positive Prejudice: if you’re judging people differently because of their etnicity, you’re being unfair, even if you are judging them more positivelly than you would otherwise.
Successive ultra-nationalist and ever more far-right governments of Israel weaponized the “positive” prejudice of many towards Jews, and this is why we find ourselves were we are now: because complete total murderous racist sociopaths hid being this whole etnic group and committed ever more hideous acts of violent racism whilst avoiding punishment for it by taking advantage of people who still run around thinking in the very same mental framework of discrimination as the Nazis had - with a different list of “good” etnicities and “bad” etnicities in their minds than said Nazis, but still judging and behaving towards others differently depending on their etnicity.
What does any of this have to do with misuse of “antisemitism”? Progressives are best defined by their opposition to wealth inequality, so how is any of this on them? If you think progressives in the US are too soft, that’s fine, but they are certainly better on wealth inequality than the conservatives and neoliberals.
Well, not being in the US, most exposure I’ve had to self-proclaimed “Progressives” is British neoliberals (mainly the New Labour types).
If “progressives” are indeed against wealth inequality (what in other countries is just called “being leftwing”), maybe it’s as somebody else said that it’s just that the people I’ve mainly run across claiming to be “progressives” were just liberals.
It’s America’s lost cause fallacy overseas. Somehow there’s a chunk of the population that seems to overlook the reality of what’s happening and attribute it to Israel’s desire to exist when the reality is it wants to pursue its apartheid and genocide.
Because the United States is genocidal and proto-fascist too. Where do you think Israel learned it? And before you go “not us,” think about how Israeli’s don’t recognize their fascism.
Israel….what a shithole nightmare
Israel…is real? We should turn that into a meme after that piece of land gets erased by a meteor like in a Bible /s
I think the only question is if you’re real
Is this a case of “if you call us genocidal, we’ll kill you too”?
Sounds a lot like terrorism.
Sounds genocidal
“in a song which has shot to the top of charts in Israel.”
Tell me again about how the government and Hamas are the bad guys, and the Israeli people only want peace.
They’re not listening to Matisyahu - One Day anymore that’s for sure…
“They made us out to be a bunch of Jewish fascists who want to kill Arabs,” he said in an interview with Ynet. “We’re representing the country, and this song raises morale
Just once I’d like journalists to point out nonsense non-sequitur. Fascism is exactly a belief in superiority of one’s national or racial identity and the inferiority of others. Then they immediately position themselves as victims again.
They all are. They all suck. It’s the paradox.
Friendly reminder to all that one of the core principles in being Jewish is a belief that you are the chosen children of G-d. Many take that for the bullshit that it is but rest assured there are more Jews than you would care to admit that believe it.
Source - my ex is Jewish and I have 3 kids that are the chosen children of G-d and I am not. Should we all die I don’t get to be buried in a Jewish cemetery with them. That’s how stupid it is.
The fact that you either post this repeatedly or are reposting something i have seen multiple times makes me nervous about what your true intent is.
Yea I’m “anti-Israel” by many metrics but this is just a misleading and seemingly propagandic take… Judaism comes in many different forms and can range from extremist, highly conservative-orthodox beliefs which believes itself to be the superior race and all the others go to some burning hell (as seems to be described in this post which represents a minority of jews in the US at least), to any of the apolitical beliefs that lack any sort of hell-equivalent or even afterlife at all in some cases, where the entire point of the religion basically boils down to “be a good person to everyone around you”. Judaism is an extremely diverse religion, hell you could even make an argument about Christianity and Islam just being highly derived forms of extremist Judaism (since Christianity originated as an offshoot of fringe jewish beliefs and Islam developed most of its unoriginal beliefs from Judaism and Christianity). Very few Jews actually have extremist/Christian-like beliefs about their religion (I don’t know about in Israel though, they very well could)
Oh look, a bot.
With fascism it’s always some “essential” identity which makes you special and it’s a mythological one, but it also requires a belief in the moral correctness of inequality. I think most modern Jews outside Israel would not believe this. They might be proud of their identity but not cross that threshold.
The actual fascism must be fostered when the conditions are right. Material conditions need to deteriorate, some persistent real or imaginary fear being pushed and then enough mainstream media (incl. social media) has to push it.
I think most westerners completely missed how bad it is in Israel. Part of it is probably because they have their own language so their messaging only gets translated in “friendly” terms.
Friendly reminder that this is person is an idiot and this is a deeply incorrect explanation of the Jewish religious understanding of jews’ relationship to God. In talmudic tradition, it is more or less correct to say that jews are understood to be in a contractual relationship with God.
I suspect this person has a bad relationship with their ex, and has decided to weave a cloak of straws to justify their shitty relationship and the community and familial support their ex receives to their personal disadvantage. It’s a weirdly common vector of effectively unintentional antisemitism. That, or they might just be dumb.
Never claimed I wasn’t an idiot. My understanding is sound. I spent 20 years in a relationship with her and have 3 beautiful children and am still amicable and friends with her family. They are not religious obviously as I am a non-jew. As with any religion the more you get into the religion the crazier it gets. Now obviously there’s a lot of nuance but as an idiot I’m also explaining for idiots. Very simply put Jewish people are taught a belief that they are “special” in the eyes of G-d. More than Christians. More than Muslims. Yes you can argue other religions do the same thing but I would argue it’s not as codified.
Sure I’m antisemitic. I have a weird way of showing it being the one to force my kids to still do all the traditional stuff and strongly encouraging they visit Israel when they are old enough.
Methinks reading so much out of a single comment on Lemmy perhaps you are the idiot.
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Still not enough to get them banned from Eurovision, right?
Maybe the rising hate of Christians is going to do it? Probably not though. FWIW this article is just the tip of the iceberg.
They straight up annihilated almost every last Christian from Gaza and it didn’t stir but a mild condemnation from the Anglican church. I doubt they’d complain if Israel barred christian pilgrims from Jerusalem tomorrow
To be fair, the pope condemned Israel’s actions in Gaza as well. Fundamentalist evangelical Christian Zionists have more financial and media power than others though, I imagine, and many others are just plain silent.
It’s hilarious that those extremist Israelis are attacking American/European evangelical fanbois just as well, remember this news event from may last year? It’s getting worse apparently.
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Yeah most Christians in the countries that matter are more hateful of Arabs and muslims than they are hateful of repression against Christians
If they were just verbally protesting their presence and not committing assaulting I’d understand as there are legit reasons for Jewish people not to like Christian Zionism… but the Israeli state finds them politically convenient I guess, so of course they let it fly. 🙄
We need to kill them, for asking us to stop killing
Nazis rappers are so stupid but every country seems to have at least a few.
Well they only seem to top the charts in Israel
To be fair: We had a nazi rapper in the Charts in Germany a few years ago.
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Stupid & negative don’t even compare to direct call to murder for political reasons
It is a nation of racist supremacists. Don’t take my word for it.
Really good video. Going into my saved posts to show other people. Who is the speaker? Sounds like he was a reporter or something since he asked the former prime minister a question?
But why those 3?? The article doesn’t seem to address it
The song calls for the IDF to “rain a storm” and “strike” a list of individuals including the women who have all previously supported the Palestinian cause or called for a ceasefire.
Oopsie my eyes betrayed me. Thanks mate
For condemning Israel’s violence. Also, Bella Hadid is Palestinian
Wait isn’t this song from months ago? But this is the first time I’m seeing it pointed out that it calls for killing these three women
nazi rappers… what no one thought the 21st century would bring us
Nazi
punksrappers fuck off.
This is a pretty common response to national trauma like this. The US had a million ‘we’re gonna kick their ass’-songs post-9/11. Most weren’t exactly subtle about it either.
Calling out other artists like Dua Lipa though… I’d probably avoid that as a musician. You never know who you’ll end up sharing a podium with down the line.
Stilla? Is that short for Stilla yo land?
