Nic McConnell @NicMcC83:
this is the most devastating review of anything i’ve ever seen
Scary Whitta @garywhitta· 1d:
Imagine if your printer was also your car. That’s what owning a Tesla is like.
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All corporations. All corporations will not be happy until ownership is a concept of the past. You are borrowing the company’s resources and paying them for the service.
If you don’t like it, stop heralding capitalism as the be-all of economic systems…
This is Lemmy, you don’t have to convince people not to like capitalism here, we’re already on board
We already have a noose set up for the first instance that gets greedy.
Define ‘we’. Not all of us are communists.
Skill issue
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Communists aren’t the only people that hate modern, western, late stage capitalism. Some of us are good, old fashioned, corporations-aren’t-people folks who believe that the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness shouldn’t be infringed by the mantra of “maximizing profits for our shareholders”.
Ah because if you don’t support laissez-faire capitalism you must be a communist.
Tell me you ate the onion without telling me you ate the onion.
Ho mangiato la cipolla
Communism is the least of your worries.
Ha! You know you are on Lemmy when “not all of us are Communists” gets pummelled by downvotes.
Apparently most are!
No, he got downvoted because he equated not supporting capitalism to communism. I think most people on Lemmy are lefties but not communists. There’s a lot of in between.
What are the other alternatives to capitalism?
Social democracy as in the European social countries for example. There’s capitalism and partially free market, but its negative effects are balanced by stronger social safety nets such as free healthcare, free education, parental support, paid vacations and other public services thanks to redistribution through progressive taxes. It’s not perfect but I believe it’s the best of what we have actually experimented to scale for now.
Those countries have actually more free economies than many of the countries that are thought of us being hard-core capitalist. https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
Scandinavia is #9-12, Canada #16, United States is #25, UK #28.
Not sure if this proves or disproves anyone’s point. Just thought to point that out.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_system
First header is “list of economic systems”
Well, all of human history before the 1400s for starters.
I thought it was obvious that we were looking for alternatives that are better.
What? He literally just said “not all of us are Communists” any other interpretation is very much reading between lines which is a stretch when there is only one line.
And with the context of the comment that they were replying to, that is very much what is implied. No need to read between the single line.
At least 15 people are!
Lol Lemmy’s Klepto Keyboard Kommunists are an endless source of misguided entertainment.
“Misguided” is a touch ironic when the only substantive point being made is, “capitalists seek profits above the welfare of their workers or customers.” You know… something heavily demonstrated throughout history…
But no, anyone who disagrees with you must be a misguided commie… Pathetic.
It’s ironic, isn’t it. With the most common “criticism” of communism being that nobody will be able to have any personal belongings…
As far as i know, communists want to share means of production (usually land and machines, anything you need to work other than your brain). That means you may have your own printer and car, as long as you pay for it with a well distributed salary.
Eventually people will realize that there is no real difference between communism and capitalism, because both systems always end up with fascists in charge.
I will agree with you only in the context where “Communism” is sought directly. In that situation, the power vaccuum in which discussions have weight are ALWAYS userped by some local, pre-existing authority, who almost always go for full authoritarian control with the language of “Communism”.
By now, most communists that aren’t just Tankies (those who idolize “Strong Men” while using leftist language) understand that “real” communism is simply a state of being where commercialized needs are no longer an existant concept after implementing enough socialistic and humanistic policies. As in, policies that benefit normal people before corporations or the rich who already have what they need.
The thing is, communism and capitalism are basically monetary systems. They aren’t power systems. No matter how a country’s finances are set up, there’s always some assholes who eventually manage to claw their way to the top and get very rich off of their power, and bring everything crashing down because they will always want more.
That’s why anyone who is knowledgable and serious about it knows that it IS NOT a direct goal to seek. It is a state of being after you’ve gotten past all the rich fucks and power hungry. Yes, that likely means it is impossible to attain, especially in our lifetimes, but that doesn’t make it a bad target when approached properly.
Is there a third option here?
Will that really work in long term? More and more folks are entering gig economy where incomes aren’t consistently stable and people have already started to subscribe for minimum time just to consume relevant content. Are they really banking on whales forgetting to unsubscribe?
You’re on Lemmy. Someone is going to mention unions within seconds.
You just did
That was only a metamention.
No they aren’t. One thing people need to learn is; executives are some of the dumbest people on this planet. Short term profits far too often wins over logical long term projections.
If they were smart, enshitification wouldn’t be reality.
I’m not sure that is true. Their job is to prioritize short term profits. If they instead prioritize long term sanity, their bosses may fire them…
living as a service
If you don’t like it, stop heralding capitalism as the be-all of economic systems…
Settle down. You’re on Lemmy, know your audience.
The irony…
Sorry full disclosure I’m high but what irony ?
There isn’t any irony. Whomever you were replying to has reading comprehension issues.
OP says that we should renounce capitalism, and I said that’s a silly statement since Lemmy unequivocally hates capitalism.
I am OP and I am the one who said capitalism is dumb. The irony was the person who responded to me saying, “know your audience”. I am the one who said, “the irony”… The irony is you implicitly think Lemmy is capitalist friendly as normal…
Maybe you are the one who needs to work on reading comprehension because you have completely fucked this up. You are quite literally incapable of understanding this basic conversation. Pathetic.
Re-read again. Slowly this time. Then use brain. If you’re experiencing the same result, try again but slower. Try sounding out the words.
NOWHERE WAS I APPLAUDING CAPITALISM
No fucking shit moron. That’s not required for irony. If you actually had a brain, you’d realize how conversation works, but clearly you never interact with actual humans. What your statements can imply do not have to be intentional to never the less still be implied, dipshit.
Mostly the “know your audience” bit. This is Lemmy. The non-corporate Reddit. If either of the two were going to understand the downsides of capitalism, it’d be those seeking escape from the products of capitalism.
… Also etiquette… pass that blunt!
What are you talking about?? OP saying that we need to stop HeRalDing capitalism. Like we’re not on Lemmy and that the overwhelming majority of us don’t already profess to hate capitalism on a very regular basis.
I don’t know how you read that any other way, smh
“I’m sorry Dave, I can’t leave the driveway, I’m out of Magenta.”
Man, I wish I were this clever. 🏅
plot twist: It’s a Brother monochrome laser printer.
The equivalent of an old brother mono laser would be a Lada or a Toyota hilux. It may not be pretty, but it’s simple and it will run forever.
We got rid of the old hl2030 in favor of a fancy color printer/scanner. Now we have neither.
We got rid of the old hl2030 in favor of a fancy color printer/scanner. Now we have neither.
Your words cut deep.
Agreed entirely. I’m a big evangelist for Brother’s business class black and white laser printers. I bought my hl2050 twenty years ago and I’ve only had to replace the toner once. It just works.
We got rid of the old hl2030
you monster! I love mine and I’ll never part with it
I still regret the decision to this day. Best little printer there ever was.
Also maybe one of those OG land rovers Queen Elizabeth used to drive
For the uninitiated: Those were and maybe still are the most basic but still solid printers you could get out there. They just work. Pull them out of a cupboard after two years? Works. Replace toner with cheap 3rd party stuff? Works. Connect and print without installing hundreds of MB of bloatware around the driver? Sure.
Yep, got tired of inkjet printers running out, clogging, print heads gumming up, just failing in so many different ways. I’ve had my laser printer for about 5 years and it’s still rolling on the sample toner cart. Granted, I don’t print all that often, but that’s another reason I like this printer so damn much.
Same, they work especially well for infrequent printing. Ink jets love to dry/clog up after some time and require changing a toner that should still have plenty of ink in it.
I got tired of the sunken cost my ink jet printer was and got a Brother color-laser multifunction and it just works. Still using the toner it came with.
I’ve had a Brother printer for a good 20 years (USB 1.0 and Ethernet connections) and it has never clogged up on me. Sometimes I go months without printing.
Maybe it’s also a laser printer
Can vouch for Brother. My parents kept buying inkjet printers every few years, the last one was a more expensive HP one but they were always a constant source of complaint. Bought them a Brother a few years ago, they literally didn’t have a single issue with it since.
I bought a brother printer / copier / scanner about 15 years ago. Still going strong, I replaced the ink once.
I bought it for $99.99
I still consider it the best money I’ve ever spent
Edit: $99 Canadian!
They are also indestructible. The brother monochrome that I have for my business is about 16 years old, last year a huge rock got thrown through our window and knocked it off the counter. Snapped the scanner cover back on, works like new.
Is there a story there?
Not really, and I genuinely wish I could say otherwise. It was some asshole kid who thought he got scammed on tattoo work because it costed more than $60.
The owner (big scary dude, the guy thay actually tattooed him) found out who he was (we had no idea who did it) and shook the shit out of his ass. Since then the kid has turned his life around and honestly is doing pretty good for himself. He still comes and gets work done every once in a while now.
Best printers.
I just bought one. Works instantly out of the box. One click “install” on Windows/Android/MacOS/Linux, and doesn’t require any of their bullshit software.
Setup on Windows is as easy as going to
Printers & Scanners > Add device > Brother
Done.
Now I can print/scan/copy and my computer has no bloatware on it. It’s wonderful.
Pc load letter?
What the fuck does that even mean?
Uh uh sounds like someone’s got a case of the muundays
No. No man, shit no man, i believe youd get your ass kicked saying something like that man
The phrase “PC load letter” is a printer error message on some mostly obsolete types of HP laserjet printers. Here, “PC” stands for “paper cassette” and the error indicates that no letter-sized paper is available for a print job with a letter size.
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A firmware update recently bricked a ton of HP 9020 printers worldwide including mine. It was so bad they had to send me a brand new one after I called support.
My next EV Van: Mercedes Printer
Maybe Toyota will start electrifying old classics like the Printer Trueno or the (dot)Matrix.
2025 Ford Epson
0 emissions, goes anywhere the white lines have bumps that fit little hole strip on the running boards.
AE86Kw
To be fair, the amount of false positive safety alerts and phantom breaking events dropped considerably last 6m.
But I can’t reconcile the fact they turned off the bumper sensors making autopilot jerkier, and forcing it to keep a much wider distance from other cars.
I won’t buy a car without ultra sonic sensors. They stop you bashing into things that you, or the cameras, can’t see.
I know of multiple people who’ve backed into poles that went right down the middle between two of them while they were too busy watching the screen.
A very useful and welcome addition, but not something to be wholly relied on as a replacement for paying attention.
Honestly, if it went between the poles and wasn’t visible on the camera, I could easily believe that it wouldn’t have been seen looking over your shoulder.
Still gotta check by eye, but I’ve personally never seen one of those cameras and sensors that didn’t have strictly better coverage than my eyes.
I have had my ultrasonic sensors disabled since the first week. If you have a proper set of cameras, you don’t need them and the incessant beeping is incredibly annoying.
Sometimes less tech is better.
Great for you. But I’d like the option to have them. A lot of cars have them as a cost add on. They’ve saved my bacon lots of times.
Do you have a Tesla? A lot of other cars don’t have a slew of high quality cameras with a massive display from which to view them.
“To be fair, (two paragraphs of printer-speak)”
Our prophet has arrived. I bow.
Admittedly a scathing burn, but in my experience not at all the same. I have had so many printers with connection issues, overpriced ink that dries up, and constant mechanical jams that I’ve sworn off ever owning a printer again and made my department paperless. But all I had to do for my Tesla is connect it to wifi, and every few weeks a no-hassle software update delivers some useful new features. I’ve never met a printer that improved with time.
I don’t understand the Tesla hate. I think people have read bad headlines and assumed they were true. I’ve had mine for 2.5 years and still haven’t even had to do more than put in washer fluid and charge at home. I would hate having to go back to oil changes and gas stations.
I hate Teslas because the owner is the company is a Nazi. I also think having a giant phone in the middle of the car is a bad idea, but it’s mostly the Nazi thing.
If you hate a company because if the owner, wait til you look up the owners/leaders/shareholders of most companies
I don’t think it’s fair to outweigh the contributions of the founders and engineers behind Tesla with one douche with a megaphone and too much money. There is undoubtedly just as much malice in other car companies, but they have the sense to keep it quiet.
The money spent to buy Teslas will go to the workers at a fair rate when the workers unionise. Until then, you’re pretty much just paying Musk. You’re not paying the workers.
IDK about the nazi thing. For me it’s a combination of the fact that the car is handled like a piece subscription software by the company, the blatant disregard for local laws, and the general smugness of the the licensees, who’ll call themselves owners, but that is only until Musk decides otherwise.
There are other great EVs on the market, and they don’t come with subscription packages and proprietary chargers. Tesla is the MacBook of cars.
Mostly fair comment, but the Tesla charging connection is vastly superior. It will become standard I believe. Ford is adopting it and others are heading that way.
Teslas can use BOTH sets of chargers, but without a lot of hacking the reverse isn’t true.
I’m glad Hyundai Kia are reasonable competition. It’s sad other makers aren’t.
How about the shit quality control (another ref) for starters, not to mention the broken promises (approaching false advertisement at this point). Oh and don’t forget the battery fires (oh, but don’t worry!! Phony Stark told us that only 0.01% of teslas have ever caught fire. Only 200+ times using goodcarbadcar, phew!!! )
Your singular anecdote about having no issues is certainly indicative of the actual situation, yep must just be bad headlines
Yep my uncle who recently retired from the auto industry, as an engineer, dished out some truly scathing critiques of Tesla, both the products and the company. They have a long, long way to go, and unfortunately one giant ego to interfere with everything. Kind of a joke really.
Granted he worked for Toyota, so the bar on quality was extremely high…
Even an econo-shitbox won’t need repair for the first 2 years.
Just showing up to defend his own purchase and not doing it in a particularly convincing way lol
Do you think that every time a gas car gets on fire it makes it to the headlines? Have you heard about selection bias?
Just saying, ICE car fires aren’t as dangerous as battery fires.
One burns faster, WAY hotter, and is harder to put out.
It burns much slower, not faster. That’s why it can burn for so long. And it has to be put differently. It’s like saying a grease fire is harder to put out because you can’t pour water on it. You can easily put it out by covering it, tho, same as battery fires.
Ignites faster, is what I meant.
Also not many fire stations have the ability to put out electrical fires, so yes, it’s harder to put out.
Ignites faster? A cigarette or just a static spark can Ignite gas fumes, you need to do pretty catastrophic damage to a pack for it to Ignite…
Yeah. .01% seems small, but that means that out of every 10,000 Teslas sold, one of them has already caught fire. That’s a ridiculously huge number
Having a Tesla is one of the most liberating experiences. I don’t have to go to gas stations, I don’t sit in lines at the gas station, I don’t even have to turn the car off. I get to where I’m going stop the car. Get out walk away without doing anything at all. I didn’t put it in park. I didn’t turn it off. I just opened the door, walked out and closed the door and the car did the rest for me. On a hot summer day and I’m coming back out with a bunch of frozen groceries. I tell the car to go ahead and be cold inside before I get there.
Sure. The owner of Tesla is a giant jerk but that doesn’t change any of the benefits. The full self-driving feature is absolute garbage. Don’t trust it. Don’t buy it. But in terms of a car being a good car, it’s a great car. The center of gravity is practically in the road. It’s a very difficult car to flip. It’s structurally very sound. If it catches fire, that’s a super bad time. Mine is all-wheel drive so it’s super zippy from a light, corners really well, and is a lot quieter than other vehicles I’ve had. To be fair, those other vehicles were loud sports cars, but the point remains.
Is the car perfect?? No. Is the owner an a sshole? Yes. Well worth every penny, and the operating costs per mile are multiples better than the other vehicles I own.
Don’t worry about your downvotes. These people can’t separate Musk from Tesla and they are DEDICATED to disliking Tesla.
I’ll chime in and say that this mirrors my experience as well. This thread is full of the same old misinformation spouted by people who have never driven one. I’ll even give a vote of confidence to the self driving. I can’t go back to manually keeping the car between the lines for hours and hours. It really does improve situational awareness and reduces fatigue in a huge way.
This has been exactly my experience. It’s not a perfect car but to get a similar experience from a different brand I’d have to pay 30% to 70% more (Model 3 performance vs KiaEV6 GT or BMW i4 M50)
That M3P is silly quick right?
The EV6GT wasn’t out when I got mine. Nothing existed that could compete.
Yeah, 3.3 to 100km/h (IIRC 3.1 to 60mph), around 11.7s for the quarter mile. Basically faster than any Ferrari from the 2000s.
Yeah, I have similar experiences. However, this is my first EV, so I have limited idea whether models from other makers are as good. I did consider VWs at the time, but the low quality of their computer systems was very apparent. Tesla’s software seems to be pretty good and at least VW is having big troubles catching up.
New Hyundais might be good, but their color selection are depressing, which made them a nope for us. And they weren’t cheaper than Teslas, which I kinda would have expected them to be.
Oh, yes, there’s nothing more imprisoning than having to turn your car off. I can’t imagine how people are able to deal with it.
Next up: How I orgasmed and achieved nirvana by upgrading my iPhone 14 Pro Max to the iPhone 15 Pro Max.
You’ll know once you experience it
Where do you live that you sit in line at a gas station? I’ve never sat at a gas station.
Sounds like the benefits you’re describing are benefits of driving any EV, right? The only Tesla-specific thing I think you mentioned you said was garbage.
Tesla’s UX, in my experience and opinion, is superior to anything else I’ve seen in cars so far.
I don’t think the " stop get out walk away" feature has been replicated.
Hyundai/ Kia are the only real competitors which is a bit weird. Some of the cars not only won’t turn themselves off, they will start harassing you to go back, get in the car, and turn off the car. It knows you left and just cries about it and scolds you va. Just putting itself into low power mode. It knows you aren’t in a seat and your Bluetooth left.
None have the charging options of a Tesla except Tesla and now maybe Ford because a deal was made.
Tesla can use Tesla charging and CCS.
The austere interior isn’t for everyone.
The raw performance puts Tesla in the lead but the EV6 is very quick
Most of it is Elon hate, not actually Tesla hate.
Personally, I prefer cars not built by racists.
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I think the problem is not the cool features, it’s the modern “subscriber model” way they’re sold to you. People don’t hate printers because they’ve got all the bells and whistles, they hate them because they’re expensive items which the manufacturers treat as if you’re renting from them.
Tesla is the car company doing the least of that though. All the app functionality is there when you buy the car. The only subscription is for data streaming.
Really? That is the exact opposite of what I’ve heard! Sure all the other companies are copying Tesla’s successful model, but I was under the impression that they basically pioneered the idea of selling you a car with features you have to pay again or subscribe to use, and having this always-connected DRM approach to remotely disabling things.
Nope, like I said the only subscription is for the premium data plan. You even get basic data for free.
I can concur with Socsa. I paid $100/yr for the data but in comparison, Tesla’s light on the subscription model. My Chevy from 2018 wanted $10/mo for OnStar, $20 for hotspot, and $ for SiriusXM (which I will never subscribe to again since unsubscribing is such a goddamn nightmare).
The panel gaps are so big you can lose a child in them.
The vehicles were never designed to be driven outside California, as the trunk dumps all the snow into the trunk when it opens (EDIT: nvm, it also dumps all the rain also.), instead of in drainage channels, and the pop out handles freeze making it impossible to open your vehicle from the outside.
That’s all before we even talk about driving one, the software issues, or the insane CEO.
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Remember when he said he is a conservative and will be persecuted for his views.
And then less than 24 hours the story of him trying to buy a flight attendants silence on his sexual harassment with a horse came out.
The hush horse story.
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He’s been a joke for years
Him “coming out” as a conservative ghoul was just meant to fuel the persecution complex of his fans
Conservatives and rightoids, always think people are against them because they are conservative and rightoids, but it’s just because they are pieces of shit, it’s not the people’s fault those two traits almost always come in pairs.
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Agreed it’s nothing like owning a printer. You don’t need to pay for the premium connectivity you can just use Bluetooth on your phone like any OTHER car. Full self driving subscription? Optional. Or you could buy the full thing out right.
Now here is where it gets like a printer. If you can’t afford the monthly payment so you lease endlessly and never own the car. Tesla makes leaving very easy and tries very hard to incentive you to renew your lease. BUT again this is the same with any other car. Just don’t lease.
Does Tesla still do the thing where every car is outfitted with all the cameras/sensors, and if you DONT buy the self driving when you purchase it, they are disabled and can never be enabled again after the fact?
Meaning they spend all the money putting these cameras/sensors in the car, but completely make them useless if you don’t drop the cash on purchase day? and if you resell it, there’s no option for the new owner to enable them?
2023 Model3 owner here. I am pretty sure you got lied to. I did not and will not buy the self driving feature, nor will I rent it. The car works just fine with all the cameras regardless. As far as I know, if I change my mind I can buy or rent FSD. I’m sure Elon still wants my money - I just don’t want my car to drive itself yet and it’s a huge expense. The cameras still work for traffic, sentry mode, etc.
This can describe a majority of consumer appliances these days.
Not saying Tesla build quality isn’t shit, but it’s not exactly a very specific insult.
Brings a whole new element to PC Load Letter
So, Wi-Fi problems?
Your work truck is an HP plotter
My compact cargo van is an airbrush strapped to a Roomba.
ROASTED!
On the printer conversations: If you don’t have a ton of space in your home, but you get out often, some libraries offer printing services - if you can bring documents on a thumb drive, it’s a nice way to do it if you don’t print too often.
I would argue all cars are like printers (gas=ink, only get good service/reliabilty with expensive ones,etc) it’s just that Tesla is doing all the anti-consumer bullshit the worst printer companies are doing atm
They both have an annoying but somewhat common issue of things getting jammed up causing progress to halt.
