Death of the author means you separate the art from the artist, and sometimes it also means you wish they were dead
Also false attributing what makes a good artist. Many of these pigs think the bullshit they pull is being rewarded by the popularity and thus contributing to their ability to make art.
I has this happen with the fifth element. I found out Luc Besson is a pedophile who has gotten multiple young girls pregnant. Including a 15 year old he started seeing when she was 13, who he left when she turned 21. The movie is so different knowing about him and his views & it really changes how i watch the movie. Its no longer a fun feel good movie for me. Especially because two of his young wives star in the film.
Brings a whole new meaning to “time not important, only life important”
The Professional too, makes for some serious ick factor.
Yeah the professional is a straight up endorsement of pedophilia 🤢 luckly i never liked that one to begin with, so it wasn’t much of a loss to avoid it lol
That explains the sexy newborn plot device. Gross
Including a 15 year old he started seeing when she was 13, who he left when she turned 21.
Some more detail: That’s Maïwenn, born 17. April 1976. They married at the end of 1992, when she was 16 and a half, and in January 1993 at 16 and 9 months of age she gave birth to their daughter Shanna Besson. They then divorced in 1997, apparently because Luc Besson left her for Milla Jovovich who was the lead actress of his film The Fifth Element.
Various articles claim that they met when she was 12 and started dating when she was 15, but none cite the source for their original meeting time or beginning of the relationship, neither do the French or German Wikipedia articles. The English one links to this paywalled article so I can’t verify.
Can I ask where you saw the claim that they started seeing each other when she was 13?
Its maiwenn that I was refering to. They met when she was 12 and formed a relationship & maiwenn openly talks about how their relationship was part of the inspiration for the movie “the professional” – which is a movie that celebrates the sexualization of the child lead & characterizes the child as the instigator of the romantic relationship. The original script was apperently even more transparent about it’s endorsement of pedophilia and had to be reigned in during production.
Meiwenn has very openly talked about their relationship in interviews & many of the films she has directed incorporate autobiographical aspects. She does not see any problem with her marriage to luc besson and thus freely admits to things. I’m remembering reading an interview where she talked about how they knew eachother for about a year before she really fell in love with him and they began dating, which puts her at 13 (12 plus a year of knowing each other). I think it also referenced that they met because he was a friend of her parents, though I’m having a hard time finding that interview right now.
My personal opinion is that they got married after she was already pregnant & had likely been intimate for years prior to the marriage at 16. I think the story that he waited until she was 15 comes from the international push back they received after luc became famous and people found out about the relationship.
I did a deep dive on this when I was in the hospital last year & happened to watch the fifth element lol. I noticed on the wiki that he was married at different times to two of the stars & then spent like 3 days reading everything i could find on him and his overly young exs.
Meiwenn has very openly talked about their relationship in interviews & many of the films she has directed incorporate autobiographical aspects.
Her being very open about it is also the impression I got.
she talked about how they knew eachother for about a year before she really fell in love with him and they began dating, which puts her at 13 (12 plus a year of knowing each other).
Okay thank you. It’s unfortunate that these things are so hard to find, but I’ll take your word for it then.
My personal opinion is that they got married after she was already pregnant
This part seems to be firmly established. Every report I saw says marriage at the end of 1992, birth in January.
had likely been intimate for years prior to the marriage at 16. I think the story that he waited until she was 15 comes from the international push back they received after luc became famous and people found out about the relationship.
That sounds plausible.
Thanks for sharing!
Definetly! I’m always happy to over share about one of my niche special interests lol
I guess it depends for me. I love Roald Dahl, both his children’s and his adult’s work, even though he was a virulent antisemite (even the museum dedicated to him comes right out and says it). My dad, who was super-sensitive to that stuff, was okay reading his books to me when I was a kid despite that.
And I think the reason why is that he didn’t let his beliefs leak into his work. I can’t look back at any of his works that I have read and see any hatred of Jews.
On the other hand, there’s someone like Woody Allen (Jewish connection not intended here) who you can see his awful shit in his movies. He’s literally dating a high school student in his film Manhattan. And he treats her like shit and basically gets away with it too.
I can’t watch Woody Allen movies anymore.
I agree that sometimes it’s possible to separate the art from the artist. Sometimes that’s pretty easy to do, but sometimes it’s pretty ambiguous.
A grey area for me is the philosopher Martin Heidegger. He was a Nazi, and this definitely comes through in some of his philosophical work. Some of it doesn’t seem to be informed by his Naziism, but I’m still pretty averse to reading it, because how do we separate the person from the Naziism? If I were a philosopher, my own political viewpoints would inevitably permeate everything I wrote, even if the texts weren’t directly political. Perhaps I’d be better able to discern the line in Heidegger’s work if I were a philosopher.
I always worry about missing bad vibes in text, because especially as an adult, I have discovered many areas in which I didn’t even notice problematic things in media (antisemitism being one such area). I cringe when looking over Harry Potter as an adult, for example, and not just because of its author’s awfulness since the books were published.
I think we need to allow people the benefit of hindsight, as well as the space to have complicated feelings. Like, sometimes there might be some news that’s comes out about a person, which causes us to look over their work with a more critical or more mature eye. Without this space, people are much more likely to dig their heels in and refuse to change.
It’s sort of frustrating to me when someone says they liked something and immediately someone just says “blah person involved is an abuser.” It feels so smug.
Disclaimer.
This post is not about Harry Potter/JK.
my favorite onion headline
For me, Salvador Dali’s work transformed from fascinating into kitsch when I learned he was a fascist.
Whoa, I had no clue about Dali!
I read this article for anyone else who is curious about the situation.
Fun fact: Dali’s famous name in the world of art and the WALL-E character were what led OpenAI to name their “DALL•E” models that way.
Yeah but let’s keep things in perspective. You don’t have to delete Puff Daddy from your iPod, but you probably don’t want to play him at your political rally.
Only reason I don’t still listen to a bunch of old Kanye is because I’d have to stream it and make him money. The man was a revolutionary musician and being a political idiot can’t take that away from him for me. I’m just not going to give him money anymore and help support his current platform.
I think it’s hard to appreciate something once I start disrespecting the author. My favourite director, Kusturica, ended up a Putin lackey and since then I’ve lost the motivation to see his works.
Not that I would condemn anyone else for watching, just that his movies died a bit for me.
Ok really tangential rant here!
I find societal attitudes to art and morality really crazy.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the idea that art and morality should be linked, but it only ever seems to happen in a negative capacity of “don’t listen to x because they did y”.
There’s a whole strain of:
- Artists who are not necessarily bad people, but whose art is aggresively immoral (I guess an obvious example would be Biggie Smalls or someone who frequently raps about sexual assault and violence in a positive way, but also the ammount of mainstream pop or country that has sexist or racist undertones)
- Artists who try hard to inject their morality into their work (such as Becky Chambers’ climate positive fiction, or Giancinto Scelsi’s anti-facist music)
On the whole, I don’t see anyone care very much about the above two points, people just “like what they like”, which is as if we think morality and art are two seperate things.
That makes sense, but then there’s this wierd category where “oh that person did this bad thing, so now their art is invalid”.
So, what’s the overall attitude? Like, art isn’t related to morality generally, but there’s some mysterious line where if it’s crossed art moves into the “forbidden zone”?
I’m all for calling bad people to account for their moral behaviour, but the way we do it in art is so jumbled and inconsistent.
Part of the issue is that in most cases, viewing art requires benefitting the artist, either directly by purchasing it or indirectly by making it more popular. JK Rowling is the most prominent example. That said, it’s a spectrum.
some people just can’t separate the crime from the art in some cases. i literally can’t hear a Michael Jackson song without thinking about the heinous shit he did, and as a CSA survivor myself, it turns my stomach. other people may not have that hangup or even believe he did those things. everyone has a different line they won’t cross, it seems.
My dad is not a nice person. He repeatedly cheated on his family for several years, lied, brainwashed us all into thinking that his late nights were normal, and even now doesn’t understand why some of his kids don’t want to talk to him.
He’s a narcassistic sociopath.
But it’s not all he is. He took us on mountain excursions, taught us to take risks and developed our sense of adventure and independence. When we needed a ride home after a night of drinking with friends, he’d be there in a flash to pick us up. He exhudes a charm that makes him a fantastic storyteller and I can’t shake off the fond memories I have of him, despite all he has done.
And if something like turns out to have been made by a bad person, I retroactively secretly hated it all along.
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